Religion

[Potastic]

Time for one of the biggest debates, religion.
Do you believe in God? Are you a muslim, christian, atheist...

Debate, argue but keep it formal.

[The Maxa]

when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.
Truer words have never been spoken.

[Waynex]

Oh no, here comes this debate again.

[Fly]

The biggest debate there is, and it's back.

[Spear]

I dont really think this should be up, people are going to start flamming others about other religions.

[Potastic]

I dont really think this should be up, people are going to start flamming others about other religions.

This is intelligent debate, flaming, cursing,trolling,... will not be tolerated.

[Shishir G]

I'm Hindu, I believe in many gods in my religion, though I'm not one of those people who say "My religion is mightier than yours!" I respect all religions, but i am a Hindu and I'm proud of it no matter what any other immature kid says.

[Spear]

Ah well, I dont really go by a religion tbh. It all seems fake to me.

[Waynex]

I'm Hindu, I believe in many gods in my religion, though I'm not one of those people who say "My religion is mightier than yours!" I respect all religions, but i am a Hindu and I'm proud of it no matter what any other immature kid says.

I think you're missing the point, (or maybe I am) But I think the debate is on whether or not there is a god, not on whose religion is "mightier".

[Perfection]

Christian?

[Shishir G]

Ah well, I dont really go by a religion tbh. It all seems fake to me.

Then you're a Atheist

[Rog3r]

It's just more logical to think there isn't any God or anything as such.

[Spear]

I just find that Nature made everything, theres enough proof for it.

[Shishir G]

I think you're missing the point, (or maybe I am) But I think the debate is on whether or not there is a god, not on whose religion is "mightier".

Oh it is? Sorry if i'm the one who missed the point.
Well, i believe in god. I know "god" is an excuse to everything we do. We do something wrong we blame it on the gods, just like the greeks, and the olympians, they imagined and created those mighty figures to have something to praise, respect, and blame. ex: A thunderstorm kills 80 people. "CURSE YOU ZEUS!"

[Potastic]

Honestly, I don't believe in anything.
I'm going to take a example, muslims believe the 'older' story's about their religion.
If you read/listen to the story they just can't be true, but still they actually believe it.

Then we have the Catholics (Christians), 'Jesus' can heal people etc..

Nothing of this makes sense.

I'm Catholic but I don't believe in those kind of things.

A world without Religions would be a better world.

[jamie]

I dont believe in anything. Im non-religic.

[Rog3r]

Oh it is? Sorry if i'm the one who missed the point.
Well, i believe in god. I know "god" is an excuse to everything we do. We do something wrong we blame it on the gods, just like the greeks, and the olympians, they imagined and created those mighty figures to have something to praise, respect, and blame. ex: A thunderstorm kills 80 people. "CURSE YOU ZEUS!"

Sometimes however when anything bad happens - religious people usually blame it on the devil or someone evil. God doesn't do bad things (well - he's suppose to not do bad things so they say).

[Waynex]

Honestly, I don't believe in anything.
I'm going to take a example, muslims believe the 'older' story's about their religion.
If you read/listen to the story they just can't be true, but still they actually believe it.

Then we have the Catholics (Christians), 'Jesus' can heal people etc..

Nothing of this makes sense.

I'm Catholic but I don't believe in those kind of things.

A world without Religions would be a better world.

I see where you're coming from, but let me try to explain what I believe.

Ok, in my opinion, I think people NEED religion, honestly. I think it's better to believe in a certain religion, why? To me I'd rather know why I was put on this earth and how it is going to end. I couldn't stand to not know my purpose in life and to just believe that when you die, everything is just over, there is nothing? Sorry, I can't believe in that.

[Potastic]

I see where you're coming from, but let me try to explain what I believe.

Ok, in my opinion, I think people NEED religion, honestly. I think it's better to believe in a certain religion, why? To me I'd rather know why I was put on this earth and how it is going to end. I couldn't stand to not know my purpose in life and to just believe that when you die, everything is just over, there is nothing? Sorry, I can't believe in that.

I respect people that believe in a religion though, but religion has already caused tons of deaths..

[The Maxa]

I see where you're coming from, but let me try to explain what I believe.

Ok, in my opinion, I think people NEED religion, honestly. I think it's better to believe in a certain religion, why? To me I'd rather know why I was put on this earth and how it is going to end. I couldn't stand to not know my purpose in life and to just believe that when you die, everything is just over, there is nothing? Sorry, I can't believe in that.
..So instead you believe in an omnipotent entity that cherishes ignorance and penalizes those intellectual enough to question his existence? I agree with you that most people find serenity in religion; however, look at the violence and destruction it has also caused. A massive cult consistent of 'sheeple' who are as ignorant as they are arrogant - sorry, but I can't approve of that.

[Shishir G]

Sometimes however when anything bad happens - religious people usually blame it on the devil or someone evil. God doesn't do bad things (well - he's suppose to not do bad things so they say).

Yeah, i agree.
People need a figure to listen to, and to follow. They made "God" realistic.
Now if they have a AWESOME good side, they have to have a bad side.
"Devil" was made.

P.S. I LOVE THIS QUOTE SYSTEM ITS SO MUCH BETTER THAN THE OLD ONE OMG

[Waynex]

..So instead you believe in an omnipotent entity that cherishes ignorance and penalizes those intellectual enough to question his existence? I agree with you that most people find serenity in religion; however, look at the violence and destruction it has also caused. A massive cult consistent of 'sheeple' who are as ignorant as they are arrogant - sorry, but I can't approve of that.

Oh, so you're that intellectual? Believing in a religion doesn't penalize anything.

[The Maxa]

Oh, so you're that intellectual? Believing in a religion doesn't penalize anything.
God will "damn you to hell" if you don't believe in him.... does that not classify as penalization?

[Waynex]

God will "damn you to hell" if you don't believe in him.... does that not classify as penalization?

Well, if you didn't believe in it, you don't have anything to worry about? So no.

[Shishir G]

Maxa, only the bible says that if you don't believe in god you'll go burn in hell.
Hell is a imaginated place just like Heaven.
I'm a religious guy, but i don't believe in that crap.
You die, you get reborn is my opinion.

[Spear]

My mom gets mad at me when I tell her im not with any religion. She is a Christian.

[Shishir G]

^ She should.
Your parents brought you up to respect the religion your in. How would you feel if your kid said that to you and you were a true religious person?

[GOD]

Christan

[Wise Old Man]

Christianity is the truth.. Explain how the universe got here or how life formed without a god and I'll become a athiest...

[Matty]

Christianity is the truth.. Explain how the universe got here or how life formed without a god and I'll become a athiest...

Explain where the proof of a 'God' is? I am sorry but your point is typical of what any other religious person would say and is all they can argue back with.

Now, you tell me why 'God' lets us continue wars with each other if he is omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient? If he is all 3 of these then he surely can stop dangerous things from happening, such being 9/11.

[Shishir G]

Explain where the proof of a 'God' is? I am sorry but your point is typical of what any other religious person would say and is all they can argue back with.

Now, you tell me why 'God' lets us continue wars with each other if he is omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient? If he is all 3 of these then he surely can stop dangerous things from happening, such being 9/11.

Because thats where the part of "life" comes in.
If people didn't die, the world would be over-populated and just a garbage can in the milky way.
Also note that everyone on Earth isn't a happy guy. There are "bad" people in the world.
God doesn't interfere with us, because there has to be "bad" people. It's also known as Creation and Destruction i think, i heard about that somewhere not sure.

[Matty]

Because thats where the part of "life" comes in.
If people didn't die, the world would be over-populated and just a garbage can in the milky way.
Also note that everyone on Earth isn't a happy guy. There are "bad" people in the world.
God doesn't interfere with us, because there has to be "bad" people. It's also known as Creation and Destruction i think, i heard about that somewhere not sure.

Obviously people have to die. I didn't say people shouldn't die, it is just, God being known as a 'Father' should be looking after us and not leading us into a state where we all fuck each other over.
Don't worry I am not 100% Atheist, I am more to Agnosticism.

[Shishir G]

Obviously people have to die. I didn't say people shouldn't die, it is just, God being known as a 'Father' should be looking after us and not leading us into a state where we all fuck each other over.
Don't worry I am not 100% Atheist, I am more to Agnosticism.

Yeah i used to think that way too.
If there's god, why doesn't he fulfill the wishes i make after doing all the good things?
, but yeah i believe/respect in every opinion there, as long as there's some common knowledge in the person talking about it.

[Waynex]

Explain where the proof of a 'God' is? I am sorry but your point is typical of what any other religious person would say and is all they can argue back with.

Now, you tell me why 'God' lets us continue wars with each other if he is omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient? If he is all 3 of these then he surely can stop dangerous things from happening, such being 9/11.

There's the problem, this answer can NEVER be answered because there's no legit proof of either side.

[Shishir G]

^ Thats the war between logic and religion.

[Matty]

There's the problem, this answer can NEVER be answered because there's no legit proof of either side.

Exactly, this is what I was trying to point out to Wise old man. As his reply was irrelevant to this debate as a whole.

[Waynex]

Exactly, this is what I was trying to point out to Wise old man. As his reply was irrelevant to this debate as a whole.

So that makes all our replies irrelevant.

[Matty]

So that makes all our replies irrelevant.

I just wanted to point out to him that you cannot use that in a debate as that is the only comeback theists have to atheists.

Debating religion is pointless as a whole anyway, there is so many people who will not give in it is unbelievable, we all have beliefs and opinions so we cannot debate this.

[Potastic]

Keep it formal i will not tolerate any cursing/flaming.

You can also share opinions but keep it friendly.

[Rog3r]

I just wanted to point out to him that you cannot use that in a debate as that is the only comeback theists have to atheists.

Debating religion is pointless as a whole anyway, there is so many people who will not give in it is unbelievable, we all have beliefs and opinions so we cannot debate this.

They are in a sense - brainwashed from birth or from a tragic event. However, in the world less and less people are becoming religious (in my city anyways) which may conceive the thought that religion is dieing overall.

[Matty]

They are in a sense - brainwashed from birth or from a tragic event. However, in the world less and less people are becoming religious (in my city anyways) which may conceive the thought that religion is dieing overall.

I think people are really seeing the truth, or as what 'atheists' believe is the truth.
In my town I rarely see many people visit Church, it is not a tradition anymore and has slowly passed.

[Shishir G]

^ Says the guy whos signature reads " I am God."

[Friss]

Keep it clean guys.

There is a thin line between heated debate and flame but you still don't have to cross it.

There is a right and wrong way to debate these things.

[Jake Jones]

I'm a Atheist, obviously you know that the Relegion doesn't believe in God, Jesus, or The Big Bang. As said before, you will just have to wait and see what happens. Though of course, if "God" came from "Heaven", and showed himself and his "Kingdom" to us. Then maybe, this would show many people that they were proven wrong even me to be honest, I'm not going to lie.

You will just have to be patient, and see is what to come in our future.

[Shishir G]

I'm a Atheist, obviously you know that the Relegion doesn't believe in God, Jesus, or The Big Bang. As said before, you will just have to wait and see what happens. Though of course, if "God" came from "Heaven", and showed himself and his "Kingdom" to us. Then maybe, this would show many people that they were proven wrong even me to be honest, I'm not going to lie.

You will just have to be patient, and see is what to come in our future.

You have a ton of imagination in that little head dont you?

[Waynex]

They are in a sense - brainwashed from birth or from a tragic event. However, in the world less and less people are becoming religious (in my city anyways) which may conceive the thought that religion is dieing overall.

Now see I see where you're coming from, but in my town everyone has a certain religion, I haven't met someone atheist yet.

[The sup]

I believe in the Muslim god, yes.

I am muslim, :D

[nine]

I'm Hindu, I believe in many gods in my religion, though I'm not one of those people who say "My religion is mightier than yours!" I respect all religions, but i am a Hindu and I'm proud of it no matter what any other immature kid says.

I'm a Christian, and yeah I believe in God and Jesus. Actually, I'm a Mormon; a part of Christian religion like Catholics, Baptists, and all of those other joints of Christianity. I feel the same way about the respect for all religions, except for Satanists, of course. People who are immature enough to make fun out of another religion and their beliefs is just a person who doesn't deserve to have a religion themselves.

I'm proud of my religion, and I am also proud to say that I befriend and help others out of my own. :)

[Jake Jones]

You have a ton of imagination in that little head dont you?

Meh.. I can have it. Though, it doesn't matter. Just because I am Atheist well, that doesn't make me a bad person.

[Brayden]

How can anyone of you here debate(with effectiveness) something that you do not have real knowledge about. Its like your arguing that cherry is the best flavour before you try blue raspberry and watermelon.

[Aaron]

Why would people flame about religions, You are what you are, People have to deal with it.

[Shishir G]

There's a difference between flaming and debating.

[Matty]

Wait, we wasn't even flaming my friend.

[ice_]

How can anyone of you here debate(with effectiveness) something that you do not have real knowledge about. Its like your arguing that cherry is the best flavour before you try blue raspberry and watermelon.

tell me retard, where do I acquire the knowledge to prove God is real? that is all to it, to debate religion is to argue behind beliefs.

for me, im an atheist and i will continue to purse my activist as an atheist until god himself is proven upon me

[Fruit]

tell me retard, where do I acquire the knowledge to prove God is real? that is all to it, to debate religion is to argue behind beliefs.

for me, im an atheist and i will continue to purse my activist as an atheist until god himself is proven upon me

retard was a bit unprovoked, but yeah..

Religion, is the downfall of mankind, A belief system of false idols and hopes, this isnt just to annoy all you Religionists, im just stating my own beliefs. ;D

EDIT: Just scrolled up and saw this.. LMAO
Only the registered members can see the link.

[Notorious]

I don't believe untill I witness, untill then I'm open

[Shishir G]

tell me retard, where do I acquire the knowledge to prove God is real? that is all to it, to debate religion is to argue behind beliefs.

for me, im an atheist and i will continue to purse my activist as an atheist until god himself is proven upon me

Okay you tell me retard, where do you acquire knowledge to prove God is NOT real?
I'm a religious person and i will continue to pursue(btw you said purse) my activist as a religious person until some retard like you can prove god isn't real.
kthxbai

[ice_]

why do I have to proof anything to you when you're making the absolute claims, indeed, fuck off right now religious faggot

[Sethy]

For all the Christians, I have been studying mythology for a while, and I came upon the story of Polyphemus of course.


Polyphemus stole the fire from Zeus, and gave it to the third race of man, (us). Zeus found out, and knew the only possibility had been on Polyphemus. He therefor decided to flood our race, and asked Poseidon to do so with the oceans. Him and Zeus' power of storm and water created a massive, MASSIVE flood. Polyphemus heard about this, and warned two mortals. He built them a large boat, or arc, and with Polyphemus' help they survived the flood.

Does this not bring you Christans to Noah's Arc? Why was it in Greek mythology before Christianity?

Personally I wouldn't consider myself as much an Atheist as much as I would Agnostic. However I do think religion is simply an excuse. Many are afraid of death, if not all. However religion is an easy way to mask that fear, as it teaches that a good life will lead to good results.

Also, I think religion is biased into the view of people as they are raised. If you're raised Christian, your more than likely Christian. If you're raised Hindu, you're likely Hindu. If you're raised Atheist, you're likely Atheist. The exception to being raised into a religion are Atheism and Agnosticism. Most people I know are only Christian because they're raised that way. If they hadn't grown up to being taught religion, there's no telling to what they would be.

Oh, and a common argument I heard before the reset of RuneLocus was the Unicorn argument (:)). Say I wrote a book, a long, long time ago about a magical Unicorn doing everything God does. Would you believe it?

Oh, in my previous statement I said that I was agnostic. One possibility that I'm completely resigned to is Christianity, it just seems like complete bullshit to me.

[Sethy]

I don't believe untill I witness, untill then I'm open

You're officially agnostic. +1

[Shishir G]

why do I have to proof anything to you when you're making the absolute claims, indeed, fuck off right now religious faggot

Someone's on their period. for stupid people (ice_) its ice_.
If you don't have proof that god doesn't exist, then why should i that he does?
You can't prove god does/doesn't exist.
"fuck off right now atheist faggot"


For all the Christians, I have been studying mythology for a while, and I came upon the story of Polyphemus of course.


Polyphemus stole the fire from Zeus, and gave it to the third race of man, (us). Zeus found out, and knew the only possibility had been on Polyphemus. He therefor decided to flood our race, and asked Poseidon to do so with the oceans. Him and Zeus' power of storm and water created a massive, MASSIVE flood. Polyphemus heard about this, and warned two mortals. He built them a large boat, or arc, and with Polyphemus' help they survived the flood.

Does this not bring you Christans to Noah's Arc? Why was it in Greek mythology before Christianity?

Personally I wouldn't consider myself as much an Atheist as much as I would Agnostic. However I do think religion is simply an excuse. Many are afraid of death, if not all. However religion is an easy way to mask that fear, as it teaches that a good life will lead to good results.

Also, I think religion is biased into the view of people as they are raised. If you're raised Christian, your more than likely Christian. If you're raised Hindu, you're likely Hindu. If you're raised Atheist, you're likely Atheist. The exception to being raised into a religion are Atheism and Agnosticism. Most people I know are only Christian because they're raised that way. If they hadn't grown up to being taught religion, there's no telling to what they would be.

Oh, and a common argument I heard before the reset of RuneLocus was the Unicorn argument (:)). Say I wrote a book, a long, long time ago about a magical Unicorn doing everything God does. Would you believe it?

Oh, in my previous statement I said that I was agnostic. One possibility that I'm completely resigned to is Christianity, it just seems like complete bullshit to me.

I agree to everything BUT the fact that you say "good life will lead to good results" im not a SUPER CRAZY MANIAC religious person, just a normal one, but just letting you know; not all religions believe that once you die, the way how you lived your life will result on whether you go to hell or heaven. In Hindu there is no crap like "hell or heaven" They have a same sort of thing, but 90% people don't believe in it.

[Markus]

God doesn't exist, Jesus was a normal human being; there is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no afterlife. Death is a void like what it was when you were an unborn; a painless eternity of nothingness. And above all, there is no such thing as a right and a wrong as they are human inventions..

[Sethy]

God doesn't exist, Jesus was a normal human being; there is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no afterlife. Death is a void like what it was when you were an unborn; a painless eternity of nothingness. And above all, there is no such thing as a right and a wrong as they are human inventions..

I completely agree, but the Christians are going to get on your ass for such a blatant statement on your view.

[Shishir G]

God doesn't exist, Jesus was a normal human being; there is no heaven, there is no hell, there is no afterlife. Death is a void like what it was when you were an unborn; a painless eternity of nothingness. And above all, there is no such thing as a right and a wrong as they are human inventions..

I'm sorry but aren't you the damn same guy who said


"Hello, people of RuneLocus. My friend told me that there were people on here denying the existence of God. It is my Christian duty to tell you that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your savior and the one true God, who loves you and created you, then you will spend all of eternity in Hell. Jesus died for your sins, after all; accept him in your life and atone for your sins my brethren!"

HERE: Only the registered members can see the link.

or have you changed in a day?

[Markus]

I completely agree, but the Christians are going to get on your ass for such a blatant statement on your view.

Then build a time machine to the period of the Roman Empire (Not the Holy Roman Empire).

[ice_]

Brayden thinks i need to study other peoples religion in order to get the feel of the one true religion, if that was the case then religion itself would not have dominated

[Twisted]

I'm sorry but aren't you the damn same guy who said


"Hello, people of RuneLocus. My friend told me that there were people on here denying the existence of God. It is my Christian duty to tell you that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your savior and the one true God, who loves you and created you, then you will spend all of eternity in Hell. Jesus died for your sins, after all; accept him in your life and atone for your sins my brethren!"

HERE: Only the registered members can see the link.

or have you changed in a day?

I'm quite sure he was trolling that thread, something you are fond of.

[Matty]

I lol'd, ice_ has troll'd you once again yet you could not see it?

[Waynex]

why do I have to proof anything to you when you're making the absolute claims, indeed, fuck off right now religious faggot

You both are arguing like little retards, you can't prove god isn't real, nor can you prove god IS real. Let people believe what they want to believe.

[Shishir G]

You both are arguing like little retards, you can't prove god isn't real, nor can you prove god IS real. Let people believe what they want to believe.

Couldn't be said better.

[Dean]

I'm Muslim, obviously I believe in God.

[Twisted]

You both are arguing like little retards, you can't prove god isn't real, nor can you prove god IS real. Let people believe what they want to believe.

I'm quite sure numerous amounts of scientists have proved god is not real.

[Fruit]

I'm quite sure numerous amounts of scientists have proved god is not real.

Wrong, what about the parts they cant back up with scientific data? like if the big bang did all come from this God particle, the higgs boson, how did that come to exist?

[Shishir G]

I'm quite sure numerous amounts of scientists have proved god is not real.

How can scientists prove god's not real? They went to go search for god?
It's 180% impossible to prove gods either fake/real.

[Rog3r]

How can scientists prove god's not real? They went to go search for god?
It's 180% impossible to prove gods either fake/real.

Once again logic falls into play. We don't have the technology at the moment to destroy religion, however we're pretty close.

[fr00zen]

I'm sorry but aren't you the damn same guy who said


"Hello, people of RuneLocus. My friend told me that there were people on here denying the existence of God. It is my Christian duty to tell you that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your savior and the one true God, who loves you and created you, then you will spend all of eternity in Hell. Jesus died for your sins, after all; accept him in your life and atone for your sins my brethren!"

HERE: Only the registered members can see the link.

or have you changed in a day?

Amen.

[Trey]

How can scientists prove god's not real? They went to go search for god?
It's 180% impossible to prove gods either fake/real.
You can't prove that I'm not god. Does that make me god?

[Shishir G]

Once again logic falls into play. We don't have the technology at the moment to destroy religion, however we're pretty close.

Tell that to Twisted, after all he's the one that said
"I'm quite sure numerous amounts of scientists have proved god is not real."
Science = Logic


You can't prove that I'm not god. Does that make me god?

You can't prove you are god. so thats a no.

[fr00zen]

You can't prove that I'm not god. Does that make me god?

God wouldn't de-capitalize his name!
Can I call you daddy?

[Trey]

You can't prove you are god. so thats a no.

We can't prove that there is god. So that's a no as well?

[Shishir G]

We can't prove that there is god. So that's a no as well?

As rog3r said, logic won't make sense in Religion.
It's all about beliefs.

[Trey]

As rog3r said, logic won't make sense in Religion.
It's all about beliefs.

Because apparently religion denies all logic. Why should I have to just accept that apparently religion is resistant to logic? To me that just sounds like a bullshit way to hold onto beliefs no matter what. We could scientifically prove that there is no god and that religion is bullshit, but it wouldn't matter because religion would just deny it some how. "God wanted us to discover that he isn't real so he could test our faith", I can hear it now.

This essentially sums up my point:
Only the registered members can see the link.

[Shishir G]

Okay then, since your a dick.
prove how God doesn't exist in "SCIENTIFIC" form?

[Trey]

Okay then, since your a dick.
prove how God doesn't exist in "SCIENTIFIC" form?

How am I a dick? I didn't say I could prove God doesn't exist in a scientific sense, we can't yet. But proving he doesn't exist logically isn't all that difficult.

[Rog3r]

Okay then, since your a dick.
prove how God doesn't exist in "SCIENTIFIC" form?

Logic form rater - i'll help to explain this.

Why not ask yourself why God never shows himself? Why God allows everyone to do evil things, why God even allows evil to exist when he states he wants everyone to be peaceful. Why are there several religions? Why does the bible change to keep up with modern context? Why do people pick and choose things from the Bible to follow? Why are many high-up monks child molesters? Why does the church do nothing about these child molesters (i.e - fire)? Why does God allow child molesters if every child is innocent? Why was it proven that most kids who were born in a religious setting, become religious? Why are their people trying to convert others into joining their religion when God specifically states that shall never happen?

I can ask more questions later, but i'm just a tad lazy.

However, don't get me wrong - we've proved things in the Bible that were impossible or evidence that never happened using Science. We also contradicted several statements from the Bible using modern day science to prove things (such as the world is flat, we revolve around the sun etc).

[Shishir G]

Logic form rater - i'll help to explain this.

Why not ask yourself why God never shows himself? Why God allows everyone to do evil things, why God even allows evil to exist when he states he wants everyone to be peaceful. Why are there several religions? Why does the bible change to keep up with modern context? Why do people pick and choose things from the Bible to follow? Why are many high-up monks child molesters? Why does the church do nothing about these child molesters (i.e - fire)? Why does God allow child molesters if every child is innocent? Why was it proven that most kids who were born in a religious setting, become religious? Why are their people trying to convert others into joining their religion when God specifically states that shall never happen?

I can ask more questions later, but i'm just a tad lazy.

However, don't get me wrong - we've proved things in the Bible that were impossible or evidence that never happened using Science. We also contradicted several statements from the Bible using modern day science to prove things (such as the world is flat, we revolve around the sun etc).

God doesn't show himself because what would be the point? It's kind of like all the hot celebrities going out in public nude and just not doing anything.
God allows people to do evil things, because the World ISN'T perfect.
+
Evil = death
Death = cycle of life
cycle of life = no over-population on Earth.

[Rog3r]

God doesn't show himself because what would be the point? It's kind of like all the hot celebrities going out in public nude and just not doing anything.
God allows people to do evil things, because the World ISN'T perfect.
+
Evil = death
Death = cycle of life
cycle of life = no over-population on Earth.

But you see, the world is becoming over populated.

But doesn't religion state you don't die, you get reborn (in some religions). Why do you believe in your God while others believe in other Gods? Why is it better...?

[Shishir G]

Eventually, over the time of course it will. Thats why we need to go on a murder spree in China.
I don't just believe that my god is the almighty and owns all the other religions. I respect all religions, but yes i mostly like my own since i've grown up learning and experiencing it. It's a matter of beliefs.
Unlike fag Christians (some) who are just total fags.
I'll tell you a story of why i officially hate old christian people.
I was at Kroger, a man came up to me. Gave me a million dollar bill, I looked at it, from the front it looks like a monopoly dollar, i turned it over and saw it said "You don't believe in Jesus, thats why this money is fake."
I went to the police, and got that old fag in jail for a week for doing that.
I've gotten atleast 6 old fags to jail for doing that.
The end.

[Twisted]

How can scientists prove god's not real? They went to go search for god?
It's 180% impossible to prove gods either fake/real.

Where have MORE evidence to prove that he doesn't exist then the evidence that he does.
You have bible.
We have LOGICAL ideas that can be backed up, which makes more sense then "God did it".
And Rog3r said, we don't have enough YET to TOTALLY kill religion, but we are like..80% ;)


Eventually, over the time of course it will. Thats why we need to go on a murder spree in China.
I don't just believe that my god is the almighty and owns all the other religions. I respect all religions, but yes i mostly like my own since i've grown up learning and experiencing it. It's a matter of beliefs.
Unlike fag Christians (some) who are just total fags.
I'll tell you a story of why i officially hate old christian people.
I was at Kroger, a man came up to me. Gave me a million dollar bill, I looked at it, from the front it looks like a monopoly dollar, i turned it over and saw it said "You don't believe in Jesus, thats why this money is fake."
I went to the police, and got that old fag in jail for a week for doing that.
I've gotten atleast 6 old fags to jail for doing that.
The end.

That story sounds quite fake good sir.
Especially when you said "I've gotten atleast 6 old fags to jail for doing that".
Cause unless its like this in America or where ever you live, no one would go to jail for doing that.

[Sethy]

God doesn't show himself because what would be the point? It's kind of like all the hot celebrities going out in public nude and just not doing anything.
God allows people to do evil things, because the World ISN'T perfect.
+
Evil = death
Death = cycle of life
cycle of life = no over-population on Earth.

You do mean that God doesn't show because there's nothing to show? People actually believe this, which makes me laugh.
"Why doesn't god appear, and why doesn't he help the world?" - Atheism
"Because the world isn't perfect!" - Religion

Oh, that's a reasonable response. For all the Christians, I have been studying mythology for a while, and I came upon the story of Prometheus of course.


Prometheus stole the fire from Zeus, and gave it to the third race of man, (us). Zeus found out, and knew the only possibility had been on Prometheus. He therefor decided to flood our race, and asked Poseidon to do so with the oceans. Him and Zeus' power of storm and water created a massive, MASSIVE flood. Prometheus heard about this, and warned two mortals. He built them a large boat, or arc, and with Polyphemus' help they survived the flood.

Does this not bring you Christans to Noah's Arc? Why was it in Greek mythology before Christianity?

Personally I wouldn't consider myself as much an Atheist as much as I would Agnostic. However I do think religion is simply an excuse. Many are afraid of death, if not all. However religion is an easy way to mask that fear, as it teaches that a good life will lead to good results.

Also, I think religion is biased into the view of people as they are raised. If you're raised Christian, your more than likely Christian. If you're raised Hindu, you're likely Hindu. If you're raised Atheist, you're likely Atheist. The exception to being raised into a religion are Atheism and Agnosticism. Most people I know are only Christian because they're raised that way. If they hadn't grown up to being taught religion, there's no telling to what they would be.

Oh, and a common argument I heard before the reset of RuneLocus was the Unicorn argument (). Say I wrote a book, a long, long time ago about a magical Unicorn doing everything God does. Would you believe it?

Oh, in my previous statement I said that I was agnostic. One possibility that I'm completely resigned to is Christianity, it just seems like complete bullshit to me.

[Shishir G]

I'm not christian, so i don't care what the bible says, and i don't believe what the bible says. You can prove me wrong all you want, i could really care less.
The story, you can call it fake all you want. I told the police officers that it was prejudice, specially because people like them were only giving those to people he thought weren't christian, meaning looking for brown skin colored people mostly. The officers understood and put him in jail. I really couldn't care if you called my life a failure or just another fail story, i wouldn't care.

[Shishir G]

You do mean that God doesn't show because there's nothing to show? People actually believe this, which makes me laugh.
"Why doesn't god appear, and why doesn't he help the world?" - Atheism
"Because the world isn't perfect!" - Religion

Oh, that's a reasonable response. For all the Christians, I have been studying mythology for a while, and I came upon the story of Polyphemus of course.


Polyphemus stole the fire from Zeus, and gave it to the third race of man, (us). Zeus found out, and knew the only possibility had been on Polyphemus. He therefor decided to flood our race, and asked Poseidon to do so with the oceans. Him and Zeus' power of storm and water created a massive, MASSIVE flood. Polyphemus heard about this, and warned two mortals. He built them a large boat, or arc, and with Polyphemus' help they survived the flood.

Does this not bring you Christans to Noah's Arc? Why was it in Greek mythology before Christianity?

Personally I wouldn't consider myself as much an Atheist as much as I would Agnostic. However I do think religion is simply an excuse. Many are afraid of death, if not all. However religion is an easy way to mask that fear, as it teaches that a good life will lead to good results.

Also, I think religion is biased into the view of people as they are raised. If you're raised Christian, your more than likely Christian. If you're raised Hindu, you're likely Hindu. If you're raised Atheist, you're likely Atheist. The exception to being raised into a religion are Atheism and Agnosticism. Most people I know are only Christian because they're raised that way. If they hadn't grown up to being taught religion, there's no telling to what they would be.

Oh, and a common argument I heard before the reset of RuneLocus was the Unicorn argument (). Say I wrote a book, a long, long time ago about a magical Unicorn doing everything God does. Would you believe it?

Oh, in my previous statement I said that I was agnostic. One possibility that I'm completely resigned to is Christianity, it just seems like complete bullshit to me.

AGAIN i'm not fucking christian.
How many times are you gonna tell me that story of Prometheus

[Sethy]

People seemed to ignore it, and therefor I reposted it.

Nowhere did I say you were Christian.

[Twisted]

I'm not christian, so i don't care what the bible says, and i don't believe what the bible says. You can prove me wrong all you want, i could really care less.
The story, you can call it fake all you want. I told the police officers that it was prejudice, specially because people like them were only giving those to people he thought weren't christian, meaning looking for brown skin colored people mostly. The officers understood and put him in jail. I really couldn't care if you called my life a failure or just another fail story, i wouldn't care.

You just upped the fakeness by quite alot sir.
Again, how do you KNOW he was going for brown skinned people? You don't, if police officers put someone in jail for listening to a kids opinion on what this Christian is doing, then your police system is fucked and should not be taken seriously :D
Also, you don't believe in god? Why in the hell are you defending him then. I can understand if you where doing a good job at refuting the Atheist's claims, but your not. Your doing a horrible job, if that.

[Shishir G]

You just upped the fakeness by quite alot sir.
Again, how do you KNOW he was going for brown skinned people? You don't, if police officers put someone in jail for listening to a kids opinion on what this Christian is doing, then your police system is fucked and should not be taken seriously :D
Also, you don't believe in god? Why in the hell are you defending him then. I can understand if you where doing a good job at refuting the Atheist's claims, but your not. Your doing a horrible job, if that.

Maybe because I wasn't the only one who got the damn million dollar note? After i started to talk to him, a few people noticed and came saying he gave it too, because I called 911 and the police was there talking to the man and me. The other's were adults, the police listened to them mostly.
I believe in god, i just don't care what others say, you can say you don't believe in god, it won't bother me.

@Furyz
QUOTE "Oh, that's a reasonable response. For all the Christians, I have been studying mythology for a while, and I came upon the story of Polyphemus of course."

[Twisted]

Maybe because I wasn't the only one who got the damn million dollar note? After i started to talk to him, a few people noticed and came saying he gave it too, because I called 911 and the police was there talking to the man and me. The other's were adults, the police listened to them mostly.
I believe in god, i just don't care what others say, you can say you don't believe in god, it won't bother me.

@Furyz
QUOTE "Oh, that's a reasonable response. For all the Christians, I have been studying mythology for a while, and I came upon the story of Polyphemus of course."

And this has happened 6 Times...
Also, again, WHY would this man go to jail for that?

And what religion are you good sir?

[Shishir G]

And this has happened 6 Times...
Also, again, WHY would this man go to jail for that?

And what religion are you good sir?

I'm Hindu.
It's not the same man, its just some random old fag guys.
He went to jail for it because he was picking out a specific color of people to give this to, and it offended me and a quite alot of other people.

[Twisted]

I'm Hindu.
It's not the same man, its just some random old fag guys.
He went to jail for it because he was picking out a specific color of people to give this to, and it offended me and a quite alot of other people.

IcIc..
Well I don't know what your country does, but in my country, being racist doesn't send you to jail.
Maybe a FINE at the most, but no jail time.
So your police system is still iffy IMO.

[Shishir G]

IcIc..
Well I don't know what your country does, but in my country, being racist doesn't send you to jail.
Maybe a FINE at the most, but no jail time.
So your police system is still iffy IMO.

I live in Texas.

[Trapt]

Get ready for people to get 10k post in 2 days from this thread.

[Brendan]

Does this not bring you Christans to Noah's Arc? Why was it in Greek mythology before Christianity?

Noah lived long before Abraham did, and Abraham's existence is dated back to the latter half of the first millennium. The story of Noah's Arc was written in the book Genesis, so I think it's safe to say that it was the original. The Torah, and indeed its descendants, is possibly the most influential text ever to have been written. It is therefore obvious where the Greeks were inspired from. They are not the only people who have similar stories, by the way. If you can find a text which predates the Torah, your statement will have some validity. Even then, its effectiveness in this argument is meagre, because only Literalistic Christians assume the The Bible to be inerrant. Conservative and Liberal Christians are willing to interpret The Bible, and as such many would say that the story of Noah's Arc (not the only story created pertinent to Noah's existence) is merely symbolic as opposed to literal. Themes of spiritual cleansing and spiritual support are common in the interpretation of the story of Noah's Arc (God washes away the sinful humans with water and portrays his merciful nature by saving all the innocent animals and Noah's family).



Personally I wouldn't consider myself as much an Atheist as much as I would Agnostic. However I do think religion is simply an excuse. Many are afraid of death, if not all. However religion is an easy way to mask that fear, as it teaches that a good life will lead to good results.


To brush religion, breathtakingly vast as it is, as "an excuse" is severely ignorant. Seth, I doubt you've studied one of the religions you poke and prod (Christianity for example) for a decent amount of time, and yet your claims and accusations are so very firm and absolute. To me, that is just ridiculous.

Death is something we all have to deal with. Every religion acknowledges this, and so they all have similar (in some cases not) reactions to it (death = action; heaven = reaction, for example). As such, death is a very important theme in religion, just as it is in every walk of life. This importance does not succeed every other importance, though. What about death's counterpart, life? To religious people - and certainly most people I would hope - life is of more, if not equal, importance, than death. What we do in life initiates a ripple in the vast pond we all live in; this much cannot be denied. As a result of this aftershock, it can be said that even in death we are constantly affecting the flow of life, and so what we do in life is massively significant in our death; whether we be religious or not. Think of it as leaving a soft, guiding ripple as opposed to a hard, destructive wave. That said, there are other themes in religion which collaborate together to fuel the vastness that is spirituality; not just death. To claim that religion is a "mask" to hide the fear of death alone is completely incorrect, both because of what I have said and because of the fact that death in many religions is not a particularly sad event. When most religious people die, funerals are held to celebrate their life as well as their death - after all, they'll be in paradise as opposed to earth, won't they? Death is something most religions, Christianity included, teach not to fear, but to welcome with open arms and a joyous outlook.



Also, I think religion is biased into the view of people as they are raised. If you're raised Christian, your more than likely Christian. If you're raised Hindu, you're likely Hindu. If you're raised Atheist, you're likely Atheist. The exception to being raised into a religion are Atheism and Agnosticism. Most people I know are only Christian because they're raised that way. If they hadn't grown up to being taught religion, there's no telling to what they would be.

Parental influence is momentous in lots of ways, and you're right - this can be said for religion too. I agree that some Christians, particularly the Literalistic ones, can be extremely wrong in how they control their children and peers, forcing them to practise Christianity, but at the same time, to look at it from a religious point of view makes clear some positives as well. Children are vulnerable and uncertain. Parents are there to guide them and to support them. To introduce them into Christianity, for example, for the parents, is the right choice, as children cannot make this decision for themselves and yet they can be inducted into the religion from the day they're born. I think this is all right, it's just when the children begin to develop their individuality and their decision-making becomes effective and a reflection of that individuality that I deem the continued efforts of parents to maintain their child's participation in religion to be wrong. If someone, like myself for example, decides that they do not want to partake in the practise of their religion any longer, I think it's right for the parents to step back and to allow. Fortunately, my parents did, and I have been allowed to make up my own mind. So I guess I sort of contradict your theory there, as well as my big brother, most of his friends, some of my former friends, my best friends... and many more.



Oh, and a common argument I heard before the reset of RuneLocus was the Unicorn argument (). Say I wrote a book, a long, long time ago about a magical Unicorn doing everything God does. Would you believe it?

Depends how big its horn would've been.



Oh, in my previous statement I said that I was agnostic. One possibility that I'm completely resigned to is Christianity, it just seems like complete bullshit to me.

Try studying it a little before you judge it so harshly.

[Potastic]

It's pretty hard to keep following these conversations, that's all I can say rofl.

[Markus]

THE SKY IS RED, I BELIEVE IT IS RED. You CANNOT tell me otherwise because you can't prove to me what a colour is. I am a Christain.

[Ramsin]

I am Christian and i believe in God.... end of.

[Canownueasy`]

If I wasn't a Christian, I would of blown up the entire world by now and claimed leadership. :)

[Sethy]

Noah lived long before Abraham did, and Abraham's existence is dated back to the latter half of the first millennium. The story of Noah's Arc was written in the book Genesis, so I think it's safe to say that it was the original. The Torah, and indeed its descendants, is possibly the most influential text ever to have been written. It is therefore obvious where the Greeks were inspired from. They are not the only people who have similar stories, by the way. If you can find a text which predates the Torah, your statement will have some validity. Even then, its effectiveness in this argument is meagre, because only Literalistic Christians assume the The Bible to be inerrant. Conservative and Liberal Christians are willing to interpret The Bible, and as such many would say that the story of Noah's Arc (not the only story created pertinent to Noah's existence) is merely symbolic as opposed to literal. Themes of spiritual cleansing and spiritual support are common in the interpretation of the story of Noah's Arc (God washes away the sinful humans with water and portrays his merciful nature by saving all the innocent animals and Noah's family).

Okay, I see your point. However with what you have just said, wouldn't that kind of bias religion a rather good amount?




To brush religion, breathtakingly vast as it is, as "an excuse" is severely ignorant. Seth, I doubt you've studied one of the religions you poke and prod (Christianity for example) for a decent amount of time, and yet your claims and accusations are so very firm and absolute. To me, that is just ridiculous.

Death is something we all have to deal with. Every religion acknowledges this, and so they all have similar (in some cases not) reactions to it (death = action; heaven = reaction, for example). As such, death is a very important theme in religion, just as it is in every walk of life. This importance does not succeed every other importance, though. What about death's counterpart, life? To religious people - and certainly most people I would hope - life is of more, if not equal, importance, than death. What we do in life initiates a ripple in the vast pond we all live in; this much cannot be denied. As a result of this aftershock, it can be said that even in death we are constantly affecting the flow of life, and so what we do in life is massively significant in our death; whether we be religious or not. Think of it as leaving a soft, guiding ripple as opposed to a hard, destructive wave. That said, there are other themes in religion which collaborate together to fuel the vastness that is spirituality; not just death. To claim that religion is a "mask" to hide the fear of death alone is completely incorrect, both because of what I have said and because of the fact that death in many religions is not a particularly sad event. When most religious people die, funerals are held to celebrate their life as well as their death - after all, they'll be in paradise as opposed to earth, won't they? Death is something most religions, Christianity included, teach not to fear, but to welcome with open arms and a joyous outlook.

Thanks, you just helped my statement :rolleyes:... I stated that people take on religion as the mask to their fear, as it teaches merely good things about it. With that belief, you would no longer be afraid, as you said, "They'll be in paradise as opposed to Earth, won't they?".




Parental influence is momentous in lots of ways, and you're right - this can be said for religion too. I agree that some Christians, particularly the Literalistic ones, can be extremely wrong in how they control their children and peers, forcing them to practise Christianity, but at the same time, to look at it from a religious point of view makes clear some positives as well. Children are vulnerable and uncertain. Parents are there to guide them and to support them. To introduce them into Christianity, for example, for the parents, is the right choice, as children cannot make this decision for themselves and yet they can be inducted into the religion from the day they're born. I think this is all right, it's just when the children begin to develop their individuality and their decision-making becomes effective and a reflection of that individuality that I deem the continued efforts of parents to maintain their child's participation in religion to be wrong. If someone, like myself for example, decides that they do not want to partake in the practise of their religion any longer, I think it's right for the parents to step back and to allow. Fortunately, my parents did, and I have been allowed to make up my own mind. So I guess I sort of contradict your theory there, as well as my big brother, most of his friends, some of my former friends, my best friends... and many more.

Yes. Your parents make and bias your belief, and as you grow, you begin to partake with that belief (as you were taught this as a child). Even with your individuality growing as you mature, you have been active in that particular religion for so long the chances of changing are slim. Of course there are the exceptions, I'm an exception. But to speak of the majority, your childhood and parenting play a large role in your religious beliefs.


Depends how big its horn would've been.

As big as God's head?




Try studying it a little before you judge it so harshly.

I used to be Christian. I know a good enough amount to judge it how I do. Also, I don't know why, it just seems made up. Plenty of other religions seem more realistic to me, however Christianity just feels... fake.

[Shishir G]

^ Seth, how can you "used to be Christian"

[Twisted]

^ Seth, how can you "used to be Christian"

Its called converting good sir.

[Shishir G]

Isn't Seth Atheist? How can you convert to Atheism or w/e

[Twisted]

Isn't Seth Atheist? How can you convert to Atheism or w/e

.......
Seth is Atheist, and its called you stop believing in God.

[Marc]

DISCLAIMER: I'm not here to convert, denounce, or belittle anyone's beliefs, and nor should anyone else. This simply what I've concluded and should be taken as exactly that.


I'm going to rip something I posted out from that Science thread:


You see, the known Universe is charted to be expanding from a central point. There is much math and observation of this. No, we haven't proven the big bang theory, or even pondered a logical reason why it happened, but there is evidence to suggest it did, which, actually makes sense. After the expansion of the existance we know, the matter and anti matter came into play, which, upon contact destructed into huge waves of energy. Long story short, by some chance and outnumbering, matter was left. As the matter continued to expand, the mass, energy, and heat generated gravity. The gravity then pulled the gas into large masses, which in turn started forming nebulas, or the birthgrounds for stars and whatnot. The nebulas contained hydrogen, the most abundant source of energy in existance, which forced into a small but extremely dense area caused said hydrogen to collide on the molecular level as it became more and more compressed. This compression generates massive heat, which after a few million degrees causes the hydrogen to fuse into helium. This eventually causes a massive force of energy to explode and thus, a star is created.

Said stars then live their life so to say, die and explode as supernovas, spreading key parts in creation around the universe. Those key elements are carbon, oxygen, and iron. These undergo the same gravitational compression, and planets are formed.

Now, there is no proven theory of life creation on earth, but this one suits me the most and seems quite logical.
I saw a documentery about massive lighting storms on earth at the beginning of life of earth. These storms constantly struck water, eventually out of some untold reason, formed proteins. these proteins eventually formed cells, and more importantly DNA, thus single celled organism's were created. The process of cell and life creation is completely plausable, speaking that we ourselves, have created artificial life ourselves.

Now onto evolution. The idea is plausible, and nearly proven. Things need to adapt to their surroundings to survive. so over time, they change. Single celled organisms become more complex, into small fish. Something happens in the water and they need to for some reason come onto land, and an amphibious animal is the result of many years of adaptation. I could go for hours on this.

If your still skeptic, look at it this way. Humans have even evolved from one another. Some humans that live in mountains have much larger lung capacities and hearts then a human in the lower altitudes. Why? Because they adapted to their surroundings. Humans that live in heavy sunlit areas and hotter climates have heavy amounts of melanin in their skin, that protect them from the sun.

Why don't we have fur? Well because the fact we wear clothing basically fucks with our evolution, thinking we don't need it. It's all about adaptation.


In the end, it makes much more sense then any religion I have ever seen. Religion and the thought of gods were an explanation ignorant humans with an imagination used to explain things, because humans thrive on knowing how and why things work.

That's the theory of the scientific side of the argument.

Now, let me explain the religious part of that that message is, and the other goodies.

First, creation, especially human kind.
If God created mankind to be in his image, why did God create so much life before the human race. The human race is not very old at all, many millions of years passed without even hint of humans. Why create a race in your image so late in the creation period?

Now, onto time periods. If the creation of Adam and Eve were instantaneous, why did it take millions, and billions of years for the entire universe to get where it is today? Why would a master creator create humans instantly, but the rest of existence takes billions of years?

The allowances and laws of human kind:
Now, humans are supposed to have free will. This means they can do whatever they choose and believe in what the want to. This is heavily contradicted, due to the fact that humans must worship a god, or face eternal torment. Also, why is the worship of a lord confined to humans? Why does no other species on this world seem to worship God or face the creators Wrath?

Why would God create humans that fight wars over false Gods that are not him?

Since there are so many more questions I could ask, the point of this is, that most religions are so contradictory and unexplainable that it's hard to believe and practice them. While there are many hypothesis and theories to the scientific standpoint, a majority of them at least make sense to some stand point from the laws of physics and logic.

[Brendan]

Okay, I see your point. However with what you have just said, wouldn't that kind of bias religion a rather good amount?


Say what?



Thanks, you just helped my statement :rolleyes:... I stated that people take on religion as the mask to their fear, as it teaches merely good things about it. With that belief, you would no longer be afraid, as you said, "They'll be in paradise as opposed to Earth, won't they?".

Your statement was:



However I do think religion is simply an excuse.

That is untrue. Nor is religion in general a way to "mask" the fear of death. If you read my post again, you might understand my point, which was basically that religion is not only about death, and it is not practised solely due to death.



Yes. Your parents make and bias your belief, and as you grow, you begin to partake with that belief (as you were taught this as a child). Even with your individuality growing as you mature, you have been active in that particular religion for so long the chances of changing are slim. Of course there are the exceptions, I'm an exception. But to speak of the majority, your childhood and parenting play a large role in your religious beliefs.


What are these chances exactly? How do you know? Some people will force their children to maintain their practises, some will not. When children move from their parents' home and into their own, I doubt that if they wanted to live atheistically, their traditions would hold them back. I think your basic point is to say that if parents ceased to enrol their children in their religion at an early age and let them choose for themselves, religion would gradually disappear because people would be able to decide from a neutral point of view which is a better way to live (religious or irreligious), am I right? I'm quite confused as to why you'd push this point.





I used to be Christian. I know a good enough amount to judge it how I do. Also, I don't know why, it just seems made up. Plenty of other religions seem more realistic to me, however Christianity just feels... fake.

Which religions? Being a Christian usually does not involve necessary Bible Study, nor any affiliated tasks which may give one an extensive knowledge of their religion, and from all your posts, I doubt you know too much about it because your references to Christianity are rather vague.

[Brendan]

Now, there is no proven theory of life creation on earth, but this one suits me the most and seems quite logical.
I saw a documentery about massive lighting storms on earth at the beginning of life of earth. These storms constantly struck water, eventually out of some untold reason, formed proteins. these proteins eventually formed cells, and more importantly DNA, thus single celled organism's were created. The process of cell and life creation is completely plausable, speaking that we ourselves, have created artificial life ourselves.

A theory is a theory: regardless of the probability of it being proven utterly, it can still be disproved (heliocentricism vs geocentricism) - thus theories, like the revelatory-based beliefs in religion, are just as excusable. Scientific paradigms change constantly whereas religion does not. It is therefore reasonable to say that this, "We almost have it", attitude is never acceptable, because science is ever-upgrading and ever-changing. Besides, there would need to be a root to this lightning storm, and a root to its root, until eventually, there is a point of origin. Until this point of origin is revealed (if you're religious, it already is [God]), no scientific findings can be said to disprove God's existence, because God is the root of all in religion, and so everything that has ever happened has been a result of him.



Now onto evolution. The idea is plausible, and nearly proven. Things need to adapt to their surroundings to survive. so over time, they change. Single celled organisms become more complex, into small fish. Something happens in the water and they need to for some reason come onto land, and an amphibious animal is the result of many years of adaptation. I could go for hours on this.

If your still skeptic, look at it this way. Humans have even evolved from one another. Some humans that live in mountains have much larger lung capacities and hearts then a human in the lower altitudes. Why? Because they adapted to their surroundings. Humans that live in heavy sunlit areas and hotter climates have heavy amounts of melanin in their skin, that protect them from the sun.

Why don't we have fur? Well because the fact we wear clothing basically fucks with our evolution, thinking we don't need it. It's all about adaptation.

How does the theory of evolution disprove God's existence? Actually, if you interpret Genesis 1:1, you could very reasonably say that evolution is mentioned:

Day 1: God created Heaven and earth from nothingness, then God created light, and separated the lightness from the darkness, deeming the light as "day", and the dark as "evening";
Day 2: God created the sky;
Day 3: God created the land and the sea;
Day 4: God created the stars, the sun and the moon;
Day 5: God created animals: fish first, then birds and land-prone animals;
Day 6: God created mankind and gave it responsibility over all previously mentioned things.

It is a very vague and basic outline of what God did in creation, and it coincides with the theory of evolution (on a strictly loose level of course).





In the end, it makes much more sense then any religion I have ever seen. Religion and the thought of gods were an explanation ignorant humans with an imagination used to explain things, because humans thrive on knowing how and why things work.


True. But science is not interested in "why?"; science is only interested in "how?". Religion deals with the "why", and so it can be said that they do not oppose each other as everyone so strongly puts - rather, they coexist to further our knowledge of the universe in a harmonious way; not a destructive way. A good quotation from William Bragg is:



Religion and science are opposed...but only in the same sense as that in which my thumb and forefinger are opposed - and between the two, one can grasp everything.




First, creation, especially human kind.
If God created mankind to be in his image, why did God create so much life before the human race. The human race is not very old at all, many millions of years passed without even hint of humans. Why create a race in your image so late in the creation period?


Humankind is the pinnacle of God's creation. They were created with the intent of being the superior species on earth, and as such, with the most power, they were given the most responsibility. God created an environment for us to live in and then created us to live in it; to protect it; to utilise it and to appreciate it; to share it.



Now, onto time periods. If the creation of Adam and Eve were instantaneous, why did it take millions, and billions of years for the entire universe to get where it is today? Why would a master creator create humans instantly, but the rest of existence takes billions of years?


The story of Adam and Eve is not literal; instead it is symbolic of sin, how God addresses sin, and how it has affected us as humans. If you read Genesis 2:x, you can quite quickly see that it is not meant to be a literal example, but a symbolic account of the creation of humans and what their role is etc. Think of it as a magnified specification of what God wants us to do - the brief mention of our creation in Genesis 1:x obviously wasn't enough.



The allowances and laws of human kind:
Now, humans are supposed to have free will. This means they can do whatever they choose and believe in what the want to. This is heavily contradicted, due to the fact that humans must worship a god, or face eternal torment. Also, why is the worship of a lord confined to humans? Why does no other species on this world seem to worship God or face the creators Wrath?

Humans who lead lives of love and peace do not go to hell for simply being of another religion or no religion. If they have sinned and repent, they will be welcomed into Heaven. That's how it goes. Animals don't worship God 'cause they can't. But I suppose we'll never know if they're worshipping God or not considering the fact that we can't communicate successfully with the majority of them.



Why would God create humans that fight wars over false Gods that are not him?

Twist that question: why would humans fight wars over false Gods when God created them? We are at fault when we war with each other; not God. He has intervened in the past with wars and other things - he has not always been disassociated with us in the way you imply.



Since there are so many more questions I could ask, the point of this is, that most religions are so contradictory and unexplainable that it's hard to believe and practice them. While there are many hypothesis and theories to the scientific standpoint, a majority of them at least make sense to some stand point from the laws of physics and logic.

Religion can be backed up by logic. I could throw out a few scientific theories, riddled with the logic of very intellectual people, which support religion. Anyway... just because one thing is contradictory does not mean that it's non-existent or false. Science teaches that two opposing things together can operate while two similar things cannot - this is proof of contradictory things needing to coexist, and also that they are most effective.

[Sethy]

I'm very tired right now, whereas I haven't gotten any sleep. I'll argue your statements later, but as of now I'll ask this;

Why are you a Christian?

[Twisted]

I'm very tired right now, whereas I haven't gotten any sleep. I'll argue your statements later, but as of now I'll ask this;

Why are you a Christian?

He isn't ;)
Atleast from what I remember :D

[Sethy]

Err, srs?

[Yaoi]

^^ LOL at the last 3 msgs, im athiest cuz i just think that there is no possible way for one biological creature,especially one that looks/breaths/speaks like a human (out of coincidence) did all this,yet,humans being the most intellegent species(some of us at least) is also a coincidence,but seriously if i see a tornado hit the empire state building ill be like,oh well i was wrong,i wouldnt act like its not really happening

[Twisted]

Err, srs?

Wait now I think about it, he might believe in god..Idk

[Brendan]

^^ LOL at the last 3 msgs, im athiest cuz i just think that there is no possible way for one biological creature,especially one that looks/breaths/speaks like a human (out of coincidence) did all this,yet,humans being the most intellegent species(some of us at least) is also a coincidence,but seriously if i see a tornado hit the empire state building ill be like,oh well i was wrong,i wouldnt act like its not really happening

I don't quite understand your post.


I'm very tired right now, whereas I haven't gotten any sleep. I'll argue your statements later, but as of now I'll ask this;

Why are you a Christian?

I was baptised, communed and confirmed (two of which at birth because I almost died) so technically I am a Christian (Catholic to be precise), but I have not went to mass in a long time and I am unsure of God's existence. I can be quite spiritual at times. Spirituality can be extremely intriguing. Religion is something I'm not fond of because of its organisation and its likelihood to be corrupt, but I admire those who acknowledge a higher being's existence, praise it and conduct themselves in a peaceful way to other humans. I like some religions in some ways, and in some ways I don't - but the cons I see are not necessarily because of the religions themselves, but the people who participate in them.

[Malik]

I'm a Christian,Pentecostal and Romanian...Not really awkward, lots of Romanian Pentecostals in my community,(Reading,PA)

Only the registered members can see the link.

[Ziek`]

I myself am unsure about religion. I have seen too many people shot down by so-call "Christians", my family included. However, I do not deny the existance of God. I also acknowledge him as my God. I guess if you wanted to get technical, I'm a Christian, and if you wanted to go deeper, I'm a Pentecostal. I don't interpret the Bible. I read it and I believe exactly what it says. I don't see a passage and go, "Well, I think it's trying to tell me blah blah blah." In my opinion, what it says is what it means.

[Shishir G]

I myself am unsure about religion. I have seen too many people shot down by so-call "Christians", my family included. However, I do not deny the existance of God. I also acknowledge him as my God. I guess if you wanted to get technical, I'm a Christian, and if you wanted to go deeper, I'm a Pentecostal. I don't interpret the Bible. I read it and I believe exactly what it says. I don't see a passage and go, "Well, I think it's trying to tell me blah blah blah." In my opinion, what it says is what it means.

That i can respect.
There are just those people in the world that always suggest that the religion/path their going in IS the correct, and smart way.

[Slik]

Religion is something complicated that still to this day can't be fully understood. When religions were created, years ago, people weren't so literate. This meant many things the religion stood for had to be dumbed down so it was comprehendable by the people. This is factor that people don't understand, they still want to take things literally. If you are part of any religion you must understand that often many things are simply symbolic.

When it comes to religions, you have to have a open mind, which is why debates usually don't go well with people who believe in religions or those who don't. Instead you have to be nuterual.

The fact of the matter is, religions are made to control people. You can't deny it. They have rules which are to be followed by the people, which controls what they do. People can disagree and say, it is only to influence your actions, but it is still indirectly or directly controlling you, yes?

I see it this way, if you spend your life practising a particular religion in a smart way, what harm are you actually doing to your life. If you are happy praying to a statue or to not eat certain things, go for it. IF there is a god, and you are practising a religion you are following the correct path, however if there isn't a god and you are practising something which doesn't make sense and are praying to something which doesn't exist, so what? At the end of the day, you are have lead a good life, you were happy and you had a 50% chance of being right.

If you don't practise anything, and there is a god, you are faced with the possibility of punishment etc. However if god is what he is made out to be, wouldn't he forgive you for your ignorance?
If you don't practise anything, and there isn't a god you have had a good life doing your own thing.

So to summerize, the way I see it, practising anything doesn't harm your chances and doesn't do anything negitive to you regardless of the outcome, but if you don't you have the chance of being wrong.

I personally don't believe in anything, I respect all religions, not because of what they stand for or what they are about, but instead the people's belief in it. Why would you want to be negative towards someone's beliefs whether they are right or wrong? I don't believe in a god, however I have an open mind to it. At the end of the day, its not impossible therefore I keep a open mind. Religions themselves give people boarders in which to live a happy life. If someone disagrees I will happily provide you with a suitable example to back up my statement.

[The0ne]

Well I believe in christianity but I do not try to force my way on another person,I personally believe there is a god.

[The0ne]

Explain where the proof of a 'God' is? I am sorry but your point is typical of what any other religious person would say and is all they can argue back with.

Now, you tell me why 'God' lets us continue wars with each other if he is omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient? If he is all 3 of these then he surely can stop dangerous things from happening, such being 9/11.

Matty god gives us the free will to do these things he wants to see who is loyal and who is not to him

[Malik]

Explain where the proof of a 'God' is? I am sorry but your point is typical of what any other religious person would say and is all they can argue back with.

Now, you tell me why 'God' lets us continue wars with each other if he is omnipotent, benevolent and omniscient? If he is all 3 of these then he surely can stop dangerous things from happening, such being 9/11.

Where do you think we will end up then?Also, these things happen so you can live to believe his power because he gets angry with "us", Why do you care so much on how good you live on this world when in heaven you have no trouble, god doesn't wants you to feel the pain but wants you to believe in what he can do and that he is real.If you have so much pain you die, you die, you go to heaven.Enough said.If you don't believe, the last words i would say would probably be flamed at etc. so I'm not gonna say them.

[Shishir G]

Where do you think we will end up then?Also, these things happen so you can live to believe his power because he gets angry with "us", Why do you care so much on how good you live on this world when in heaven you have no trouble, god doesn't wants you to feel the pain but wants you to believe in what he can do and that he is real.If you have so much pain you die, you die, you go to heaven.Enough said.If you don't believe, the last words i would say would probably be flamed at etc. so I'm not gonna say them.

Believing in God is one thing. Saying after you die you go to a palace made out of clouds and you feel no pain, you get unlimited porn there, no internet disconnections. Thats a whole different thing i refuse to believe.
If there's heaven, there's hell. If there's hell, the core of the Planet would explode as people say hell is "underground".

[Malik]

you get unlimited porn there, no internet disconnections

There will be no earthly things their lol, so you can just take that out of the picture, no pain,no sorrow,no sweat,new body,no stress,gold, and more...

EDIT: Its no palace, as I just said before,their will be no such earthly things, its a place that can't be described(no clouds),no thing can be compared to it.

[Shishir G]

There will be no earthly things their lol, so you can just take that out of the picture, no pain,no sorrow,no sweat,new body,no stress,gold, and more...

no porn? thats bs.
Edit: sorry this is intelligent forgot.

How can you make such a broad statement without actually knowing and having proof, yes i know its impossible to show that god exists/doesn't exist, but the least you can do is make it a little believable this place your talking about sounds like my room.
I get no pain there, no sorrow, theres a AC on 24/7 so no sweat, i don't need a new body i have a sexy one anyways, i never stress, i don't need gold im 16 i need money, and i dont need "more..."

[Malik]

I'm telling you to read this, i edited it, not that other bs. also mod delete these posts if its causing spam. I'm trying to continue on the discussion going on.

Its hard to explain in my own words because you just said that is like your room, its perfect, not like 50 degrees in your room(you won't sweat but I don't think you should feel comfortable with 24/7 AC),no economy since you don't/won't have anything of worth(tv,games,pc, etc) and alot more I don't feel like typing, my fingers are hurting unusually...So basically its perfect...

[DustinClark]

If there was nothing then there would'nt be something.
Therefor we are proof of something.
Although if you think of it something has a beginning
and if something is something and has a beginning then there was nothing. But there is something proving there was never nothing.
Therfor something was created by something more powerful.
My answer to that would somewhat be a god,
But I question if god is everything then he is something. Something had a beginning and before the beginning was nothing
But there is something proving there was nothing.

So I question, What created god>Created the thing that created god> created the thing that created the thing that created god.> and so on

^Woh I don't know what i'm talking about. I just messed up 5 times probably :)

Edit: Left out, If we die and there is nothing then wtfffffff?

[Aff]

76% of all athiests were christian/brung up in a christian family
20% were catholic/brung up in a catholic family
the rest are just plain smart.

(An actual smart answer tommorow)

Durr hurr, no shit.

You can't decide on a religion if you haven't tried one before. Of course atheists were from christian people. Durr hurr, atheists can also come from jews. What's your point?
Also, thank you captain obvious for stating that catholic people come from catholic families! That has cleared very much.


On topic: I'm somewhat deist as I don't see a point in modern day religion. I don't believe in these myths that some savior will rescue us from the apocalypse or anything, but I believe that there is some supernatural being that created the first particle, etc. There is no explanation to the creation of it, which is why I resort to believing in a 'God'. I think this is also the main reason people fall to religion (not completely understanding something and having to believe in something that makes the most sense to them).

[Slik]

...So basically its perfect...

Perfection doesn't exist, if it did we wouldn't exist. If there was perfection, then when the big bang occured, everything would have a equal pull on everything and nothing would be able to move, however since perfection doesn't exist, some things had a greater pull on other things which shapes our universe. If everything exploded from a single point, a perfect sphere, then everything would equally far away from everything giving everything the same gravitional pull. However the single point had imperfections which resulted in a long story short, our existance.

Before you say the Big bang hasn't been proven, there is more proof to its authentisity than anything opposing it. One major flaw in the Big bang theory was, where did the initial mass come from? It has been proven that mass can be extracted from energy and vise versa. A simple answer would be, before anything existed, there was only pure energy. This would be energy in its purest form.

[Malik]

Perfection doesn't exist, if it did we wouldn't exist. If there was perfection, then when the big bang occured, everything would have a equal pull on everything and nothing would be able to move, however since perfection doesn't exist, some things had a greater pull on other things which shapes our universe. If everything exploded from a single point, a perfect sphere, then everything would equally far away from everything giving everything the same gravitional pull. However the single point had imperfections which resulted in a long story short, our existance.

Before you say the Big bang hasn't been proven, there is more proof to its authentisity than anything opposing it. One major flaw in the Big bang theory was, where did the initial mass come from? It has been proven that mass can be extracted from energy and vise versa. A simple answer would be, before anything existed, there was only pure energy. This would be energy in its purest form.

Their is perfection, humans have litterally no chance to perfect, but their is perfect, don't assume their isn't because their is, don't act like you know what your talking about because perfect is perfect and it is possible, but can not be achieved by humans OR of any other form of life,object,thought,emotion,action, etc.

[Slik]

Their is perfection, humans have litterally no chance to perfect, but their is perfect, don't assume their isn't because their is, don't act like you know what your talking about because perfect is perfect and it is possible, but can not be achieved by humans OR of any other form of life,object,thought,emotion,action, etc.

Provide me with proof that there is anything which is perfect. When you bring anything down to scale, there is flaws in it. I don't assume there is perfection, infact I know there is no such thing as perfection. You on the other hand, assume there is. I provided you with an example which re-enforces my statement, can you do the same?

[Shishir G]

Provide me with proof that there is anything which is perfect. When you bring anything down to scale, there is flaws in it. I don't assume there is perfection, infact I know there is no such thing as perfection. You on the other hand, assume there is. I provided you with an example which re-enforces my statement, can you do the same?

Perfection = The Earth in its place. If it was too far, we'd be a ice planet. If it was too close, we'd burn up, and possibly be destroyed, but instead we're at the perfect place where heat, and cold comes without actually destroying us.

[Slik]

Perfection = The Earth in its place. If it was too far, we'd be a ice planet. If it was too close, we'd burn up, and possibly be destroyed, but instead we're at the perfect place where heat, and cold comes without actually destroying us.

Actually there is roughly a 200,000,000 mile distance in which any planet in that area has the correct conditions to sustain water. That isn't exactly an example on perfection now is it? There could be a much better perportion for us anyways, we are not a perfect distance away from the sun.

You are being very vague, for example you could say our ozone is perfect, but the truth of the matter is, it isn't. Provide me with something that is solid proof that perfection exists, something that can be tested or/and discussed intelligently.

[Waynex]

Perfection = The Earth in its place. If it was too far, we'd be a ice planet. If it was too close, we'd burn up, and possibly be destroyed, but instead we're at the perfect place where heat, and cold comes without actually destroying us.

I can't believe you think that the earth is in it's perfect place.

[Shishir G]

I can't believe you think that the earth is in it's perfect place.

Obviously, it has to be doing something perfectly to be holding life in it, unlike Mars, or Pluto(i said pluto because its rlly far)

[Brendan]

Obviously, it has to be doing something perfectly to be holding life in it, unlike Mars, or Pluto(i said pluto because its rlly far)

Quit it. Your arguments are invalid and yet you persist. I've warned you about this numerous times. Do not think about debating in this section with anyone unless you provide a qualitative quantity to the topic at hand.

[Slik]

Sustaining life on earth has got more to it then the position it is in. We have radioactive elements on earth, which gives us heat. This is what heated the core of the earth, those elements. This then brought volcanos which aided in the creation of the atmosphere. That is the key to life on earth, part is due to the position part to the eliments which make up earth. We could be 100,000,000 miles away from the sun and still have water, and life. Your arguement doesn't proof there is perfection shishir G.

[Brendan]

DustinClark, what you're referring to is renowned as the First Cause argument (cause and effect). In order for something to be caused, it had to be caused (and so on), but Thomas Aquinas argued that this chain of events cannot possibly be infinite and so stated that God - being omnipotent and therefore requiring nothing to create him - initiated the chain, thus naming him "the First Cause". There are several components to his argument and several others can be included under the same umbrella of thought.

[Elysian]

Our world, universe, etc, had to be made my some higher power, God.

The scientists say that the Big Bang created matter, and that it was made by something colliding or some crap, really tired so I can't be made to research that. The Scientists also believe in the Law of Conversation of Matter, which states matter can neither be created, or destroyed, only converted into other matter.

How did the world get here? Absolutely not by a "Big Bang", as they already disproved that themselves. Something had to create it for it to happen..

I myself, and a Christian, a doubting one, but I never have stopped believing that there is a God.


_______________________

Before something said that I took what I posted from them, I'm sorry. I only read about the first 5 comments.

[Christopher]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles,


One of the most persistently asked questions has been: How was the universe created? Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however,no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning.

About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What exisisted prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation. This occurance was not a conventional explosion but rather an event filling all of space with all of the particles of the embryonic universe rushing away from each other. The Big Bang actually consisted of an explosion of space within itself unlike an explosion of a bomb were fragments are thrown outward. The galaxies were not all clumped together, but rather the Big Bang lay the foundations for the universe.

The origin of the Big Bang theory can be credited to Edwin Hubble. Hubble made the observation that the universe is continuously expanding. He discovered that a galaxys velocity is proportional to its distance. Galaxies that are twice as far from us move twice as fast. Another consequence is that the universe is expanding in every direction. This observation means that it has taken every galaxy the same amount of time to move from a common starting position to its current position. Just as the Big Bang provided for the foundation of the universe, Hubbles observations provided for the foundation of the Big Bang theory.

Since the Big Bang, the universe has been continuously expanding and, thus, there has been more and more distance between clusters of galaxies. This phenomenon of galaxies moving farther away from each other is known as the red shift. As light from distant galaxies approach earth there is an increase of space between earth and the galaxy, which leads to wavelengths being stretched.

In addition to the understanding of the velocity of galaxies emanating from a single point, there is further evidence for the Big Bang. In 1964, two astronomers, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, in an attempt to detect microwaves from outer space, inadvertently discovered a noise of extraterrestrial origin. The noise did not seem to emanate from one location but instead, it came from all directions at once. It became obvious that what they heard was radiation from the farthest reaches of the universe which had been left over from the Big Bang. This discovery of the radioactive aftermath of the initial explosion lent much credence to the Big Bang theory.

Even more recently, NASAs COBE satellite was able to detect cosmic microwaves eminating from the outer reaches of the universe. These microwaves were remarkably uniform which illustrated the homogenity of the early stages of the universe. However, the satillite also discovered that as the universe began to cool and was still expanding, small fluctuations began to exist due to temperature differences. These flucuatuations verified prior calculations of the possible cooling and development of the universe just fractions of a second after its creation. These fluctuations in the universe provided a more detailed description of the first moments after the Big Bang. They also helped to tell the story of the formation of galaxies which will be discussed in the next chapter.

The Big Bang theory provides a viable solution to one of the most pressing questions of all time. It is important to understand, however, that the theory itself is constantly being revised. As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial.

Science proves God is fake.


Credits:

Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson for finding evidence of TBBT
Edwin Hubble - Creator of TBBT, and Hubble Telescope.


Edit: My story

Well, I did have a change of heart when I was maybe, 12. I begin thinking "This God figure doesn't help anyone at all. Why should we believe in a fake Messiah that doesn't give us ANYTHING?"

I then started researching the facts about God, and stumbled upon an interesting article that explains the fact about TBBT, I was interested and made a change in my religion. I've been Atheist since.

[Elysian]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles,


One of the most persistently asked questions has been: How was the universe created? Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however,no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning.

About 15 billion years ago a tremendous explosion started the expansion of the universe. This explosion is known as the Big Bang. At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What exisisted prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation. This occurance was not a conventional explosion but rather an event filling all of space with all of the particles of the embryonic universe rushing away from each other. The Big Bang actually consisted of an explosion of space within itself unlike an explosion of a bomb were fragments are thrown outward. The galaxies were not all clumped together, but rather the Big Bang lay the foundations for the universe.

The origin of the Big Bang theory can be credited to Edwin Hubble. Hubble made the observation that the universe is continuously expanding. He discovered that a galaxys velocity is proportional to its distance. Galaxies that are twice as far from us move twice as fast. Another consequence is that the universe is expanding in every direction. This observation means that it has taken every galaxy the same amount of time to move from a common starting position to its current position. Just as the Big Bang provided for the foundation of the universe, Hubbles observations provided for the foundation of the Big Bang theory.

Since the Big Bang, the universe has been continuously expanding and, thus, there has been more and more distance between clusters of galaxies. This phenomenon of galaxies moving farther away from each other is known as the red shift. As light from distant galaxies approach earth there is an increase of space between earth and the galaxy, which leads to wavelengths being stretched.

In addition to the understanding of the velocity of galaxies emanating from a single point, there is further evidence for the Big Bang. In 1964, two astronomers, Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson, in an attempt to detect microwaves from outer space, inadvertently discovered a noise of extraterrestrial origin. The noise did not seem to emanate from one location but instead, it came from all directions at once. It became obvious that what they heard was radiation from the farthest reaches of the universe which had been left over from the Big Bang. This discovery of the radioactive aftermath of the initial explosion lent much credence to the Big Bang theory.

Even more recently, NASAs COBE satellite was able to detect cosmic microwaves eminating from the outer reaches of the universe. These microwaves were remarkably uniform which illustrated the homogenity of the early stages of the universe. However, the satillite also discovered that as the universe began to cool and was still expanding, small fluctuations began to exist due to temperature differences. These flucuatuations verified prior calculations of the possible cooling and development of the universe just fractions of a second after its creation. These fluctuations in the universe provided a more detailed description of the first moments after the Big Bang. They also helped to tell the story of the formation of galaxies which will be discussed in the next chapter.

The Big Bang theory provides a viable solution to one of the most pressing questions of all time. It is important to understand, however, that the theory itself is constantly being revised. As more observations are made and more research conducted, the Big Bang theory becomes more complete and our knowledge of the origins of the universe more substantial.

Science proves God is fake.


Credits:

Arno Penzias and Robert Wilson for finding evidence of TBBT
Edwin Hubble - Creator of TBBT, and Hubble Telescope.

To me, who really didn't read any of that, proved nothing. It proves nothing against that God wasn't the "First Cause" as Brendan said.

[Christopher]

It actually does.

Proves that the world wasn't created in 7 days, or some shit like that.

Proves that the universe took ten's of billions of years to form planets (large things we call rocks)

[Mitchell]

I'm not a believer, but I'm not going to go criticize people for belieing, so I'm merely agnostic.

I read the bible, a lot of shit has happened in the bible, so I don't see how the hell that happened.

I went to bible school because I was forced, I learned about a lot of bullshit in the bible, but yet again, I've seen the news, then I refer back to the bible, oh hey, that's happening.

So I'm confused.

[Slik]

People who make references to any holy book can't really use it as solid proof of anything. At the end of the day a person who says, "I have full faith in the Bible and trust it with my soul" is just as good as if I were to write a book saying the Big Bang theory is true. It is just a book, it was writen by MEN, not God. Not jesus, but men.

Let me try approaching religion in another way, ever heard of chinese whispers? It is called many things but the moral is, one person passes a message over to the next person. A group of people continiously pass over the message to the next person until it comes back to the person who started. You then find out how much the message has been altered.

The holy books have been passed on to many different people, who have re-written vast amounts of it. There is no book that was given by god and hasn't been altered. There is only huge quantities of books that have been altered countless times by many different people.

Now those believers, you here stating that your belief is the correct one, who am I to tell you otherwise. But then again how can you be so certain that one person's interpretation of someone else's view of the book is correct? Simple truth is you can't, but you still chose to believe. There is nothing wrong with that, only you can't sit here and use it as a solid argument.

Ok, with that said I want to move on a little. Since there are mulitple Christians debate amoungst many Athiest, I want to stress I do not mean any disrespect. This is a touchy subject that many feel strongly about so I want to put this in a non offensive manner.

This is facts about the religions, please do not disagree this is common knowledge about the religions.

Christianity originated from Judasim. In Judasm, jewish people believe that God will send an annioted one, a person to be the saviour of mankind. Christians believe God has already sent the anointed one, and that person is Jesus, the son of God. Jewish people on the other hand believe that Jesus isn't the son of god and that he isn't the anointed one whom God will send. They are still waiting for their saviour.

There are various things the anointed one was meant to bring. First off, peace and joy for all mankind. In the world we live in, can you tell me that Jesus has brought us peace and joy? My answer like many, is no he has not. This is one fundemental flaw in Christianty. Next up is freedom for ALL. Not just jews or christians. ALL should have freedom, millions don't. We don't live in the messanic age nor has anyone ever.

From this I conclude, if God exists then Jadaism is correct and saviour hasn't arrived yet. If they are wrong and the Big Bang theory is true, Christainty is still wrong. Then again, another religion may be right and both others could be wrong, however Christians are still wrong?

[Waynex]

I'm not a believer, but I'm not going to go criticize people for belieing, so I'm merely agnostic.

I read the bible, a lot of shit has happened in the bible, so I don't see how the hell that happened.

I went to bible school because I was forced, I learned about a lot of bullshit in the bible, but yet again, I've seen the news, then I refer back to the bible, oh hey, that's happening.

So I'm confused.

Everyone has a choice, God doesn't make choices for you, that's where free will comes in. All the things on the news that you see really has nothing to do with God in my opinion, like I said, everyone has their own free will, and that decision will reflect on you in the afterlife, Heaven or Hell. Don't curse me out, that's just how I was raised, and that's what I will continue to believe in.

[Mitchell]

On behalf of WHY I don't believe.


The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice. God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are "pleasing to the Lord".



Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. "Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you." (Genesis 22:1-18) Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar. Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat. He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith. However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.



Even though he didn't kill his son, it is still an incredibly cruel and evil thing to do. If Abraham did that today he would be in jail serving a long sentence as someone's prison-bitch. It amazes me how Christians see this story as a sign of God's love. There is no love here, just pure unadulterated evil.


Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)



Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)



This is one of the many.

[Shishir G]

On behalf of WHY I don't believe.
This is one of the many.

Bringing the Bible into this won't get you anywhere.
Silk explains at the top why the bible can't prove anything into this debate, more intelligently than in my own words.
Please read.


People who make references to any holy book can't really use it as solid proof of anything. At the end of the day a person who says, "I have full faith in the Bible and trust it with my soul" is just as good as if I were to write a book saying the Big Bang theory is true. It is just a book, it was writen by MEN, not God. Not jesus, but men.

Let me try approaching religion in another way, ever heard of chinese whispers? It is called many things but the moral is, one person passes a message over to the next person. A group of people continiously pass over the message to the next person until it comes back to the person who started. You then find out how much the message has been altered.

The holy books have been passed on to many different people, who have re-written vast amounts of it. There is no book that was given by god and hasn't been altered. There is only huge quantities of books that have been altered countless times by many different people.

Now those believers, you here stating that your belief is the correct one, who am I to tell you otherwise. But then again how can you be so certain that one person's interpretation of someone else's view of the book is correct? Simple truth is you can't, but you still chose to believe. There is nothing wrong with that, only you can't sit here and use it as a solid argument.

Ok, with that said I want to move on a little. Since there are mulitple Christians debate amoungst many Athiest, I want to stress I do not mean any disrespect. This is a touchy subject that many feel strongly about so I want to put this in a non offensive manner.

This is facts about the religions, please do not disagree this is common knowledge about the religions.

Christianity originated from Judasim. In Judasm, jewish people believe that God will send an annioted one, a person to be the saviour of mankind. Christians believe God has already sent the anointed one, and that person is Jesus, the son of God. Jewish people on the other hand believe that Jesus isn't the son of god and that he isn't the anointed one whom God will send. They are still waiting for their saviour.

There are various things the anointed one was meant to bring. First off, peace and joy for all mankind. In the world we live in, can you tell me that Jesus has brought us peace and joy? My answer like many, is no he has not. This is one fundemental flaw in Christianty. Next up is freedom for ALL. Not just jews or christians. ALL should have freedom, millions don't. We don't live in the messanic age nor has anyone ever.

From this I conclude, if God exists then Jadaism is correct and saviour hasn't arrived yet. If they are wrong and the Big Bang theory is true, Christainty is still wrong. Then again, another religion may be right and both others could be wrong, however Christians are still wrong?

[Brendan]

It actually does.

Proves that the world wasn't created in 7 days, or some shit like that.

Proves that the universe took ten's of billions of years to form planets (large things we call rocks)

That disproves the Bible's content for Literalistic Christians - it changes nothing for those who (quit wisely) interpret the Bible and apply modern knowledge and science to it.

Also, if you had read one of my previous posts which was directed toward Marc, you would've seen that one interpretation of Genesis 1:x actually harmonises with the Big Bang Theory.



From this I conclude, if God exists then Jadaism is correct and saviour hasn't arrived yet. If they are wrong and the Big Bang theory is true, Christainty is still wrong. Then again, another religion may be right and both others could be wrong, however Christians are still wrong?

The three big religions are not the only ones around... just a reminder.

And no, Christianity is not wrong because Jesus did not bring forth the Messianic Age. The New Testament, which is sort of important (:p), accounts for what happened to Jesus and what happened to humankind as a result of his existence. If you read it you'll notice that it's a sort of update from God stating that the apocalypse will come, but on that day God will judge every human to have lived and he will allow the deserved entry to Heaven.

Mitchell, those were from the Old Testament, which is known as a portrayal of God's "badass" personality, and while the Old Testament certainly cannot be discarded because of its seemingly brutal surface, it can be reapplied in modern situations in different ways.

God never was going to allow Abraham to kill his son, Isaac. There were two possibilities: Abraham would have been overcome with fear and failed to do it or he would've went ahead and God would've stopped him. The latter occurred, showing that God was merely testing his faith (this was not the only test Abraham had to go through), which is, I'd say, an example of his love (you do you part and I'll do mine). Such is the commitment Abraham made him (the covenant).

[Slik]

The three big religions are not the only ones around... just a reminder.

And no, Christianity is not wrong because Jesus did not bring forth the Messianic Age. The New Testament, which is sort of important (:p), accounts for what happened to Jesus and what happened to humankind as a result of his existence. If you read it you'll notice that it's a sort of update from God stating that the apocalypse will come, but on that day God will judge every human to have lived and he will allow the deserved entry to Heaven.


Ok, here is what I want. A smart christian right?

There are 6 major religions. Out of those, you can use pieces of each holy book to make something you want seem the right thing to do. For example, if you wanted to preech that killing women is acceptable, using various different extacts you could easily do so. This is both the greatest strength of the holy books, but its biggest weakness. You could say, adultary is strickly forbidden, and dealing justice for crimes to the highest point is acceptable. Therefore you would be able to techniqually say, killing women is right. Yes?

A book that can be interpreted in so many ways cannot be taken literally. I can't stress this enough, how can you defend a statement with something that can be interpreted in many different ways? Something that you may feel strongly towards may be what another christian feels is difference. What is the benchmark? What is right and what is wrong? The truth is, you don't know but you chose to believe in a something knowing you could be wrong. Therefore there is no point in trying to be right because at the end of the day, you may be right but you may also be wrong.

If someone wants spiritual guidance, forget the fact that they may be believing in something that isn't real, if they need the mental help, why deny them right? That is a part of religion I don't have a problem with. The main issues I have regarding religions are;

1) They control you, often mindless people like muslims performing military jihads are used to represent the religion. When idiots can be controlled so easy due to their strong beliefs in what a book says, it can be easily manipulated by anyone with half a brain to make them do anything you want. Add some higher power and you have the igrediants to start wars. Similar to what Americian and British media do to muslims right? I am not defending nor offending anyone by stating this. Just using it as an example.

2) Knowledge is evolutionary. That is a simple fact that many can grasp. We came from not knowing a lot to knowing a lot more now. With practising something from a book which, not to be rude is actually outdated, isn't really a good idea. For example, many hindus worship or treat cows with great respect. Do you actually know why? The reason is because years ago the king in charge of a large area of India was faced with a difficult decision. His people were starving as population was increasing. He had very little animals left in his land yet so many hungry mouths to feed. So knew that if a person or a family killed a cow and ate it, they would be full for 3 days but then starve. However if they didn't kill it, but drank the milk it produced they would survive. How do you go about telling millions of hungry Indians "don't eat meat anymore, drink its milk you won't be full but you'll live!". The simple truth is, you don't. Instead you feed the minds with something they would understand and accept, you tell them that the cow is holy. You say it is Krishna's fav animal which results in Indians not eating it anymore, and the people live, they're hungry but they live.

This occurs with EVERY religion. Hindism is just an example I used.

3) People aren't so defensive about questioning their beliefs, they loose part of what they preech. Free will. Hundreds of thousands of people are born into religions, did they have a choice in it? No, and if they leave the religion for most, they face great consequinces. More so those who accept religion are still bound to not questioning it, which in sense doesn't really mean they have free will. They're told if they question god, they'll pay for it in hell etc. Therefore they don't exactly have FULL free will.

4) A lot of what is preeched is to defend the religion. - Why would god ask people to "go forth and multiply", if he is all knowing wouldn't he know they would eventually run out of resources? The truth is it is stated to protect the religion. If 2 people have 2 children, they are automatically brought into the religion, now there are 4 people in the religion. Imagine this, but on a much larger scale.

I'll look forward to what you reply regarding this, I have more I want to discuss. :P

[Joe]

My answer is simple i will know when im dead till then i will live live to its fullest!

[Slik]

My answer is simple i will know when im dead till then i will live live to its fullest!

How is that possible? When you are dead, you are not thinking. How would you even actually know? You won't. But instead, you can think you were right. :D

[Emperor]

I am atheist satanist/paganist (wich is not leviathan satanist - The one of worshipping of a so-called Satan).

Now why would this be better then a religion, Christianity is nothing more then "following the horde", They act like a bunch of lambs.
They follow who-ever goes first.
Wich is why satan is imaged as a goat, One following his own way, not being corrupted or lead by the horde.

As the bible states: All christians are "god's lambs", While satan; the so-called fallen angel start leading it's own way.
This own way is looking more to the inner god, the nature around you, rather then believing in some allmighty individual.

So, instead of following the main horde, you can "devellop" your own beliefs, your own guide-lines of the way you like to live.
And; the main reason humanity came up with religion, is still hope and the urge to give all bad-things a cause, reason, ...
This has later been abused to gain money. After a while humanity started to become smarter, and started to doubt heaven/god/... Making the priests feel threatened of there way to make money. This is when hell started to come up. "Thee who does not follow the bible, shall burn in hell.,,
And, the best and easiest way to make humanity follow you, is by creating fear amongst the horde. Fear made them stick to there pathetic religions, making the so-called priests gain more money and power again.

Imagine the world without religion. You'd be more free, having the opportunity making up your own way of living. This can be in honour, ...
Paganisme is a great example.
A paganist had the opportunity to follow their own guidelines, rather then following those being set-up for you by greedy individuals.
But, since paganists refused to become a christian, christianity started to get rid of paganisme.
This has been done by calling the naked female paganists on friday the 13th witches. Infact they where women choosing there man to marry (Yes, Friday the 13th was infact a day of the marriage-ritual, a feast).
The male paganist on that day wore masks, with horns on, and had boots on with a split tip, To proove the females of being worthy warriors/hunters. This is how the image of a so-called Satan started to become more real.

And this was just about christianity, don't get me started on islam/muslims.

Note - I do realise no one reads this, and if they have, they will not be convinced, this is why humanity is still following the main horde.

[Shishir G]

How is that possible? When you are dead, you are not thinking. How would you even actually know? You won't. But instead, you can think you were right. :D

Sarcasm. Learn it.

[Emperor]

I'm sorry but aren't you the damn same guy who said


"Hello, people of RuneLocus. My friend told me that there were people on here denying the existence of God. It is my Christian duty to tell you that if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your savior and the one true God, who loves you and created you, then you will spend all of eternity in Hell. Jesus died for your sins, after all; accept him in your life and atone for your sins my brethren!"

HERE: Only the registered members can see the link.

or have you changed in a day?

I just read this, and this actually made me fell on the ground of laughing.

"It has come to my attention *acts professionally*, no-one here likes the idea of a saviour who never even fucking excisted.,,

His christian duty, don't make me laugh.

The world has had enough christian morals without the endless flow of people like that.

[Brendan]

The world has had enough christian morals without the endless flow of people like that.

It can be argued, rather validly, that all moral guidelines can be traced back to their origin in the Bible - written moral guidelines. Most laws now are extensions of the Bible's commandments (the Romans were particularly influential in this). Without these guidelines, and following "your own path", as you put it, is very dangerous. We may instinctively know that something is wrong, but it is never a bad thing to refer to sources for advice, and if we didn't have any written sources to refer to regarding morality, I'd bet this world would be a much worse place.

[Brendan]

Ok, here is what I want. A smart christian right?


I am not smart, but I'll try my best to keep up with you. Also:



I was baptised, communed and confirmed (two of which at birth because I almost died) so technically I am a Christian (Catholic to be precise), but I have not went to mass in a long time and I am unsure of God's existence. I can be quite spiritual at times. Spirituality can be extremely intriguing. Religion is something I'm not fond of because of its organisation and its likelihood to be corrupt, but I admire those who acknowledge a higher being's existence, praise it and conduct themselves in a peaceful way to other humans. I like some religions in some ways, and in some ways I don't - but the cons I see are not necessarily because of the religions themselves, but the people who participate in them.




There are 6 major religions. Out of those, you can use pieces of each holy book to make something you want seem the right thing to do. For example, if you wanted to preech that killing women is acceptable, using various different extacts you could easily do so. This is both the greatest strength of the holy books, but its biggest weakness. You could say, adultary is strickly forbidden, and dealing justice for crimes to the highest point is acceptable. Therefore you would be able to techniqually say, killing women is right. Yes?


Possibly true. A bit radical, I must admit, because it is universally known that murder (with or without the involvement of religion) is the worst act a person could commit to another. I don't understand how this point is valid in falsifying Christianity, though, because what you're implying is that what is written in the Bible is widely accepted regardless of its content... which is true, but I don't see anything wrong with that either. The Bible preaches love and forgiveness. Its teachings are dedicated to peace, not the opposite.



A book that can be interpreted in so many ways cannot be taken literally. I can't stress this enough, how can you defend a statement with something that can be interpreted in many different ways? Something that you may feel strongly towards may be what another christian feels is difference. What is the benchmark? What is right and what is wrong? The truth is, you don't know but you chose to believe in a something knowing you could be wrong. Therefore there is no point in trying to be right because at the end of the day, you may be right but you may also be wrong.


I disagree with the first statement. Certain things can and must be taken literally (the ten commandments, for example). However, interpretation is very, very important in religion - that much I agree with. Defending Christianity with references to the Bible is the best thing any Christian can do considering it is the book which they refer to for most walks of life. The Bible notes Christianity, and without it, Christianity would fall apart, because as you later say: verbal revelation can become extremely twisted and ruined, whereas written revelation cannot be as easily. That's why God asked Moses to note what their discussions were about on Mt Sinai - so that the message would be pure and uncorrupted.

About the benchmark... that is up to the individual, really, if they want to set their own benchmark, but ultimately there are two choices: right or wrong actions. There is no in between. Christians, or any others interpreting the Bible, who bend the Bible's words to their own betterment rather than adhering to its fundamental message are acting immorally; simple as that.



The main issues I have regarding religions are;

1) They control you, often mindless people like muslims performing military jihads are used to represent the religion. When idiots can be controlled so easy due to their strong beliefs in what a book says, it can be easily manipulated by anyone with half a brain to make them do anything you want. Add some higher power and you have the igrediants to start wars. Similar to what Americian and British media do to muslims right? I am not defending nor offending anyone by stating this. Just using it as an example.


I agree. But this is not an issue with religion, is it? It's an issue with humans who would bend it to their own will. Islam does not teach that terrorists should kill many people to send a message; humans dictate that. Gullible people are often taken advantage of by religious authorities, and that is one of the main issues I take with the organisation of religions as well, but I refuse to agree that it is an issue with the religion, whatever it may be, itself.



2) Knowledge is evolutionary. That is a simple fact that many can grasp. We came from not knowing a lot to knowing a lot more now. With practising something from a book which, not to be rude is actually outdated, isn't really a good idea. For example, many hindus worship or treat cows with great respect. Do you actually know why? The reason is because years ago the king in charge of a large area of India was faced with a difficult decision. His people were starving as population was increasing. He had very little animals left in his land yet so many hungry mouths to feed. So knew that if a person or a family killed a cow and ate it, they would be full for 3 days but then starve. However if they didn't kill it, but drank the milk it produced they would survive. How do you go about telling millions of hungry Indians "don't eat meat anymore, drink its milk you won't be full but you'll live!". The simple truth is, you don't. Instead you feed the minds with something they would understand and accept, you tell them that the cow is holy. You say it is Krishna's fav animal which results in Indians not eating it anymore, and the people live, they're hungry but they live.

This occurs with EVERY religion. Hindism is just an example I used.


I agree. There are issues with religious authorities -- again, not with religion itself -- who maintain old beliefs for nonsensical reasons, and that does need to change.



3) People aren't so defensive about questioning their beliefs, they loose part of what they preech. Free will. Hundreds of thousands of people are born into religions, did they have a choice in it? No, and if they leave the religion for most, they face great consequinces. More so those who accept religion are still bound to not questioning it, which in sense doesn't really mean they have free will. They're told if they question god, they'll pay for it in hell etc. Therefore they don't exactly have FULL free will.


Jesus said (not exactly), "If you repent, God will forgive you.", and so we always have free will - we can disbelieve if we so wish, but on our day of judgement, we must repent for our sins and God will allow us entry to heaven; that's the way Christianity goes. To be honest, if you question God throughout your life and then when you face his judgement in Heaven you wish to continue that questioning and go to Hell (or wherever), that's your choice. You always have a choice. It's only a matter of whether you prefer love or fear.



4) A lot of what is preeched is to defend the religion. - Why would god ask people to "go forth and multiply", if he is all knowing wouldn't he know they would eventually run out of resources? The truth is it is stated to protect the religion. If 2 people have 2 children, they are automatically brought into the religion, now there are 4 people in the religion. Imagine this, but on a much larger scale.


That's not to "protect" the religion - that's to bring more humans to this earth and to include them in salvation. Christians do believe, after all, that being a good Christian will grant one salvation. Spreading the beliefs of Christianity was always part of God's plan (even before Christianity was created upon Jesus' death and resurrection), and the reason for his wanting this is so that we humans live good lives - live according to the Bible and treat others with love. What's so bad about that?

[Emperor]

It can be argued, rather validly, that all moral guidelines can be traced back to their origin in the Bible - written moral guidelines. Most laws now are extensions of the Bible's commandments (the Romans were particularly influential in this). Without these guidelines, and following "your own path", as you put it, is very dangerous. We may instinctively know that something is wrong, but it is never a bad thing to refer to sources for advice, and if we didn't have any written sources to refer to regarding morality, I'd bet this world would be a much worse place.

Christians leading the lives of how the bible commands it, is not a good thing at all.

How are you able to actually live, if you're constantly hold back by a book?
So, rather then just checking a book everytime you have to make a decision; You can just aswel follow your own morals, guidelines.
Rather than following excisting morals, made for millions of peoples.

At the end, religion is still humanity's curse.
And, as it allways happens; A tyrant's downfall is allways caused by himself.

Humanity came up with this "god" idea, to give them hope, reasons, answers, and it will eventually destroy them.

[Brendan]

Christians leading the lives of how the bible commands it, is not a good thing at all.

How are you able to actually live, if you're constantly hold back by a book?
So, rather then just checking a book everytime you have to make a decision; You can just aswel follow your own morals, guidelines.
Rather than following excisting morals, made for millions of peoples.


What are your morals and how do they trump these ones?

Ten Commandments:
Love thy neighbour;
Keep the Sabbath day holy;
Honour thy mother and father;
Thou shall not kill;
Thou shall not commit adultery;
Thou shall not commit idolatry;
Thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain;
Thou shall not steal;
Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour;
Thou shall not covet anything that belongs to thy neighbour.


The Bible is a book of peace and love. What is wrong about that?

[Emperor]

What are your morals and how do they trump these ones?

Ten Commandments:
Love thy neighbour;
Keep the Sabbath day holy;
Honour thy mother and father;
Thou shall not kill;
Thou shall not commit adultery;
Thou shall not commit idolatry;
Thou shall not take the Lord's name in vain;
Thou shall not steal;
Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbour;
Thou shall not covet anything that belongs to thy neighbour.


The Bible is a book of peace and love. What is wrong about that?

The bible is not a book of peace and love. If you read the first post I made (Wich was incredibly long o.O) you can see why religion is nothing more then the biggest lie there is at this moment.

Telling people in the medieval times about witches, Devils, Satan, ... While it was nothing more then naked females doing the marriage ritual on friday the 13th, is not peace and love, this is bringing hate and fear amongst humanity.

* Thou shall not kill;

Meaning, you can not take revenge when someone slaughters the women you love.
You can however torture that person, as this is not stated in the ten commandments you just posted.

The bible is a book of peace and love.
- No, not at all.
The bible is the worst lie that has occured so far. How many wars has occured thanks to a simple book?
How many times have women been killed, drowned, tortured for being paganist.
How many times has religion attempted to make an individual follow their religion, If that individual did not, he was called a heiden (I'm belgian, No idea what the correct spelling is in english).

And I am not going to post my own morals, simply because they are personal, and every human being should devellop their own morals.

[Brendan]

And I am not going to post my own morals, simply because they are personal, and every human being should devellop their own morals.

Tell me, how do your morals differ from those pointed out in the ten commandments, and how are they better?


The bible is not a book of peace and love. If you read the first post I made (Wich was incredibly long o.O) you can see why religion is nothing more then the biggest lie there is at this moment.


Quote yourself, I couldn't find it. The Bible is a book of peace and love. If not, what else?



Telling people in the medieval times about witches, Devils, Satan, ... While it was nothing more then naked females doing the marriage ritual on friday the 13th, is not peace and love, this is bringing hate and fear amongst humanity.


Witchcraft is a sin and so is idolatry (paganism usually involves polytheism and therefore idolatry), but neither are punishable by death. Nothing is according to the Bible (some cruel statements can be found in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament many things were revised and changed). God did not murder those pagans you spoke of. Humans did. The Bible did not murder those pagans. Humans did. The Bible states thoroughly that we should forgive others for their sins and we should pray for them; not that we should take justice into our own hands and kill them.



* Thou shall not kill;

Meaning, you can not take revenge when someone slaughters the women you love.
You can however torture that person, as this is not stated in the ten commandments you just posted.


No, you can't. Then you'd be defying the commandment to love your neighbour. The commandments are loose; the Bible is basically a humongous extension of the commandments and how to apply them in different situations.



The bible is a book of peace and love.
- No, not at all.
The bible is the worst lie that has occured so far. How many wars has occured thanks to a simple book?
How many times have women been killed, drowned, tortured for being paganist.
How many times has religion attempted to make an individual follow their religion, If that individual did not, he was called a heiden (I'm belgian, No idea what the correct spelling is in english).

Heathen, perhaps.

Many religious organisations have murdered those who refuse to join their ranks. Take a look at the disciples of Jesus: did they threaten those who wouldn't join them? No, they travelled the world peacefully, spreading Jesus' word. Down the line somewhere, humans have thirsted for power and have used their authority in their religion to realise that power; they weren't actually trying to induct more people into their religion so that they could be saved. Roman Catholicism is the most widely practised religion on earth. Why? Because the Roman empire expanded across the world vastly and they killed whoever did not join Catholicism. Did God order conquerors to commit genocide and forcefully convert people? Nope. Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

Same accounts for wars. There is an ongoing war right now that has been raging for centuries (between Jews and Muslims in Jarusalem) because they both believe that they're entitled to pray and live on the Holy Land and that any others from different religions do not. It is a difficult subject to discuss because it is outrageously complex, but again, it is not the Bible that has initiated these wars; it is humans thirsting for power.

[Emperor]

Tell me, how do your morals differ from those pointed out in the ten commandments, and how are they better?



Quote yourself, I couldn't find it. The Bible is a book of peace and love. If not, what else?



Witchcraft is a sin and so is idolatry (paganism usually involves polytheism and therefore idolatry), but neither are punishable by death. Nothing is according to the Bible (some cruel statements can be found in the Old Testament, but in the New Testament many things were revised and changed). God did not murder those pagans you spoke of. Humans did. The Bible did not murder those pagans. Humans did. The Bible states thoroughly that we should forgive others for their sins and we should pray for them; not that we should take justice into our own hands and kill them.




Imagine the world without religion. You'd be more free, having the opportunity making up your own way of living. This can be in honour, ...
Paganisme is a great example.
A paganist had the opportunity to follow their own guidelines, rather then following those being set-up for you by greedy individuals.
But, since paganists refused to become a christian, christianity started to get rid of paganisme.
This has been done by calling the naked female paganists on friday the 13th witches. Infact they where women choosing there man to marry (Yes, Friday the 13th was infact a day of the marriage-ritual, a feast).
The male paganist on that day wore masks, with horns on, and had boots on with a split tip, To proove the females of being worthy warriors/hunters. This is how the image of a so-called Satan started to become more real.

Of course god didn't kill them, because there simply is no god.

I was talking about the religion itself, Don't even get me started on the idea of a so-called god.

My point was, on the post I just quoted; There is no such thing as witches, this old believe has been caused by christians. While it was nothing more then a pagan ritual, happening yearly, About love and marriage.
Though, since paganists refused to become a christian, the christians made up lies, caused fear in the main horde, to make the christian religion more powerful, destroying paganism.

This is one of the many examples why a religion is nothing else but lies, corrupting humanity, and making humanity weak.

I do know this has no effect on you, or any other christian for that mather, since your beliefs have stand up for too long. But, if you dismiss all your beliefs for a few minutes, and read through this post, regardless of what your beliefs are. You should realise christianity (Or any other religion for that mather) has done nothing good to humanity. Infact, It has only made humanity more pathetic, weaker and maintained the view of humanity as a horde, rather then individuals, having their own thoughts, beliefs, ...



Heathen, perhaps.

Many religious organisations have murdered those who refuse to join their ranks. Take a look at the disciples of Jesus: did they threaten those who wouldn't join them? No, they travelled the world peacefully, spreading Jesus' word. Down the line somewhere, humans have thirsted for power and have used their authority in their religion to realise that power; they weren't actually trying to induct more people into their religion so that they could be saved. Roman Catholicism is the most widely practised religion on earth. Why? Because the Roman empire expanded across the world vastly and they killed whoever did not join Catholicism. Did God order conquerors to commit genocide and forcefully convert people? Nope. Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity.

No, the so-called god did not command them to slaughter everyone actually living their own lifes.
But this would not have happend without religion.

This could also have happened by humanity's hunger for power, wealth and the knowledge of being mightier than one other, yet their reasons where religion.


Tell me, how do your morals differ from those pointed out in the ten commandments, and how are they better?

This depends on whoever reads this, I myself do believe my guidelines are simply better.
Another one would think they're complete nonsense.

But, I do believe mine are better simply because mine are based on individuals, not on a main horde.
Mine are part of having your own thoughts, desires, ... Rather than following religion.

My guidelines are better for the simple fact that I made them myself, not out of greedyness, power, ... But out of my own knowledge, capabilities. Opposite to religion, who's guidelines are nothing more then lies, to maintain the power of the horde, gain wealth, ...


- My posts are getting longer every time..

[Sethy]

How about instead of Christians refuting Atheist, you tell us why you think God exist. Why is he real?

[Brendan]

Emperor, humans can use religion as an excuse for barbarism, but it is just that; an excuse. Religion is not the source of barbarism. How can a text which fundamentally says, "Love one another.", insinuate war, violence or hatred? Ask yourself that question and then figure out whether the text itself is at fault, or the people reading it and using it as an excuse to back up their lust for power, masquerading as an adventure to divinity.

Seth, God exists to sustain the universe.

[Sethy]

Emperor, humans can use religion as an excuse for barbarism, but it is just that; an excuse. Religion is not the source of barbarism. How can a text which fundamentally says, "Love one another.", insinuate war, violence or hatred? Ask yourself that question and then figure out whether the text itself is at fault, or the people reading it and using it as an excuse to back up their lust for power, masquerading as an adventure to divinity.

Seth, God exists to sustain the universe.

Oh, that's lovely. That's why you believe in God, though? Because he is supposedly the one to support the world? Oh, not to mention the universe. I just find it hard to believe that one man, correction, god, could do all of this. It just makes no sense. Which is why if I had ever believed in religion, it would be Polytheism. (I once did, actually) More than one force controlling different elements makes plenty more sense to me than on force controlling it all. Besides, I wouldn't worship such a cruel god anyway.

[Emperor]

Emperor, humans can use religion as an excuse for barbarism, but it is just that; an excuse. Religion is not the source of barbarism. How can a text which fundamentally says, "Love one another.", insinuate war, violence or hatred? Ask yourself that question and then figure out whether the text itself is at fault, or the people reading it and using it as an excuse to back up their lust for power, masquerading as an adventure to divinity.

Seth, God exists to sustain the universe.

Simple answer: Because it is a lie.
The whole bible is a lie, No mather how harsh this seems.
Thats simply what religion is all about. Power.

I mean seriously, I wear an inverted cross as necklace as a sign of anti-religion.
Then some christian group knocks at my door, attempting to sell me the book of lies.

They notice the cross, go away; And the next day I get the local christian community knocking at my door.
They wanted to "excorsise" me, for wearing an icon not suiting their believes.

This is yet another example of the stupidity of man-kind.

[Brendan]

Btw, you still have to rebut my former counter, a couple pages back.

I'm unsure if I believe in God. When I do though, I do so separately from religion, and I feel blissful. Having divine awareness is very peace-inducing. It makes me want to love others and rid myself of all negativities. What could possibly be bad about that?

The way you put it, multiple gods are just as ridiculous as one god. Either way, you've got invisible forces working behind the scenes everywhere, all the time. God is portrayed as an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Why is it so hard, then, to understand that he knows no impossibilities?

How d'you figure God's cruel?

[Brendan]

Simple answer: Because it is a lie.
The whole bible is a lie, No mather how harsh this seems.


Show me a part of the Bible that is a "lie".

[Emperor]

Btw, you still have to rebut my former counter, a couple pages back.

I'm unsure if I believe in God. When I do though, I do so separately from religion, and I feel blissful. Having divine awareness is very peace-inducing. It makes me want to love others and rid myself of all negativities. What could possibly be bad about that?

The way you put it, multiple gods are just as ridiculous as one god. Either way, you've got invisible forces working behind the scenes everywhere, all the time. God is portrayed as an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Why is it so hard, then, to understand that he knows no impossibilities?

How d'you figure God's cruel?

There are no postives without negatives.

There is no god without belief.

There is no religion without the stupidity of humanity.

[Brendan]

There is no religion without the stupidity of humanity.

It's funny that you should suggest every religious or spiritual person to be stupid, because the majority of the most intelligent people in history were religious.

[Emperor]

It's funny that you should suggest every religious or spiritual person to be stupid, because the majority of the most intelligent people in history were religious.

Yet, stupid for believing in religion, not noticing the corruption.

Stupid as in short-sighted, not as in no intelligence.

[Sethy]

Btw, you still have to rebut my former counter, a couple pages back.

I'm unsure if I believe in God. When I do though, I do so separately from religion, and I feel blissful. Having divine awareness is very peace-inducing. It makes me want to love others and rid myself of all negativities. What could possibly be bad about that?

The way you put it, multiple gods are just as ridiculous as one god. Either way, you've got invisible forces working behind the scenes everywhere, all the time. God is portrayed as an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent being. Why is it so hard, then, to understand that he knows no impossibilities?

How d'you figure God's cruel?

Both ideas are more or less silly. Why do I find him cruel, though? Simply because he lets the violence continue in this world. He lets people suffer in hell because of HIS mistake. He lets people starve, and he lets everything that he says to be wrong occur. When you have the power to stop it with the snap of your fingers, and don't, you're a cruel being.

[David]

No-one can know if there is a God. It could be in your head but it also could be real. No-one is able to proof if there is a God or not.
I believe in God, ofcourse im doubting but I think there exists a God.

[Emperor]

No-one can know if there is a God. It could be in your head but it also could be real. No-one is able to proof if there is a God or not.
I believe in God, ofcourse im doubting but I think there exists a God.

Doubting is the start of changing your beliefs.

And, how could there be a god when the concept of a god is merely used for power.

[Brendan]

Yet, stupid for believing in religion, not noticing the corruption.

Stupid as in short-sighted, not as in no intelligence.

I have agreed with you on numerous occasions about religions as organisations being ridiculously manipulative and downright wrong. What we disagree on is that the Bible is a book of love, and God is love. The intelligent people I mentioned believed God to be love, and loved him and others as a result, and look what they were able to achieve.



I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details.

[Emperor]

I have agreed with you on numerous occasions about religions as organisations being ridiculously manipulative and downright wrong. What we disagree on is that the Bible is a book of love, and God is love. The intelligent people I mentioned believed God to be love, and loved him and others as a result, and look what they were able to achieve.

Intelligence has nothing to do with being religious. Einstein would have been able to achieve everything without believing in a so-called god.

[Brendan]

Both ideas are more or less silly. Why do I find him cruel, though? Simply because he lets the violence continue in this world. He lets people suffer in hell because of HIS mistake. He lets people starve, and he lets everything that he says to be wrong occur. When you have the power to stop it with the snap of your fingers, and don't, you're a cruel being.

If you see a lion starving and you have a live rabbit in a cage by your side but you decide not to feed the rabbit to the lion, are you a cruel being?

[Break]

Simple answer: Because it is a lie.
The whole bible is a lie, No mather how harsh this seems.

The bible isn't a lie.
There are parts in the bible that are exaggerated, But the bible is defenitly isn't a lie.

[David]

Intelligence has nothing to do with being religious.

Indeed, if you believe in God you do that with the feeling of your heart, not with your intelligence.

[Emperor]

If you see a lion starving and you have a live rabbit in a cage by your side but you decide not to feed the rabbit to the lion, are you a cruel being?

No, that's the law of nature. Weaker individuals have to die, Stronger survive untill they encounter a stronger opponent.


The bible isn't a lie.
There are parts in the bible that are exaggerated, But the bible is defenitly isn't a lie.

Let me attempt to walk on water then, or start healing random people.
Maybe I could even go kill my own son, just because I believe in some almighty one.

[Brendan]

Intelligence has nothing to do with being religious.

And yet you've stated numerously that religious people are stupid.


Einstein would have been able to achieve everything without believing in a so-called god.

How do you know that to be possible? You don't. Nor do I. It is equally improbable for Einstein to have been able to achieve everything with the belief of God's existence. Which is the better choice to make?

[Emperor]

And yet you've stated numerously that religious people are stupid.



How do you know that to be possible? You don't. Nor do I. It is equally improbable for Einstein to have been able to achieve everything with the belief of God's existence. Which is the better choice to make?

Because Einstein simply was a genious.

And, As I said before, Stupid as in short-sighted, not by your amount of intelligence.

[Brendan]

No, that's the law of nature. Weaker individuals have to die, Stronger survive untill they encounter a stronger opponent.


You misread my post. The rabbit wasn't free, you had it under your control in a cage.



Let me attempt to walk on water then, or start healing random people.
Maybe I could even go kill my own son, just because I believe in some almighty one.

With God, all things are possible.

[Brendan]

Because Einstein simply was a genious.

And, As I said before, Stupid as in short-sighted, not by your amount of intelligence.

So Einstein was a genius, but he was short-sighted?

[Emperor]

You misread my post. The rabbit wasn't free, you had it under your control in a cage.



With God, all things are possible.

Let me start by walking on water then.

And; I didn't misread the post. But; this can be taken in numerous ways.
The lion was weak, because he was starving. The rabbit is protected by a cage, and i well-fed. Meaning in this occasion the rabbit is the stronger one.

[Brendan]

Let me start by walking on water then.

And; I didn't misread the post. But; this can be taken in numerous ways.
The lion was weak, because he was starving. The rabbit is protected by a cage, and i well-fed. Meaning in this occasion the rabbit is the stronger one.

No, I'll explain it.

Seth said God is cruel because he can observe all the suffering in the world and does not stop it. I then said, if you were to have a rabbit in a cage by your side and you saw a starving lion, would keeping the rabbit alive be cruel to the lion?

[Emperor]

No, I'll explain it.

Seth said God is cruel because he can observe all the suffering in the world and does not stop it. I then said, if you were to have a rabbit in a cage by your side and you saw a starving lion, would keeping the rabbit alive be cruel to the lion?

And my reply is still the same, no. That's the law of nature, and this could be considered or cruel, or simply the way it is and should remain.

So, if the human did not release the rabbit, it still is not cruel. Since it's still the law of nature, just with human interference.

And, this is a never ending question.

[Brendan]

And my reply is still the same, no. That's the law of nature, and this could be considered or cruel, or simply the way it is and should remain.

So, if the human did not release the rabbit, it still is not cruel. Since it's still the law of nature, just with human interference.

And, this is a never ending question.

So you agree that God not using his powers to end all the suffering on earth is not cruel?

[Emperor]

So you agree that God not using his powers to end all the suffering on earth is not cruel?

There is no god.
Thus, it does not mather.

And, cruelty can be defined in several ways.

Example:
One slaughtered your family. You take revenge by torturing him, and eventually killing him.

Or,
You are the one slaughtering a family.

[Brendan]

There is no god.
Thus, it does not mather.

You don't know that there's no God.

[Emperor]

You don't know that there's no God.

I do.

[Brendan]

I do.

Very well. You cannot prove it, though.

[Emperor]

Very well. You cannot prove it, though.

I can. Just think about it in a different perspective.

Thinking as in the way of, "Not being a human" and thinking about humanity.

Anyone can do this, yet most still remain short-sighted.

[Malik]

I just read this, and this actually made me fell on the ground of laughing.

"It has come to my attention *acts professionally*, no-one here likes the idea of a saviour who never even fucking excisted.,,

His christian duty, don't make me laugh.

The world has had enough christian morals without the endless flow of people like that.

You really shouldn't mock another's religion, you act like you know everything related to religions, a non believer concludes you probably believe that mankind takes care of itself and doesn't believe in this "god", don't make me laugh now.


I do.

Again you don't see me calling Buddhists idiots(because they aren't) or the Hindu foolish (again they aren't) just because I don't believe in that type of religion.I at least respect them and don't mock them because that is wrong.And you saying you do know if their is a god will probably be pleading to him when your next road is to hell(or wherever).

[Emperor]

You really shouldn't mock another's religion, you act like you know everything related to religions, a non believer concludes you probably believe that mankind takes care of itself and doesn't believe in this "god", don't make me laugh now.



Again you don't see me calling Buddhists idiots(because they aren't) or the Hindu foolish (again they aren't) just because I don't believe in that type of religion.I at least respect them and don't mock them because that is wrong.And you saying you do know if their is a god will probably be pleading to him when your next road is to hell(or wherever).

I never said I know everything about religion, I only said I view of it in a different perspective, and I'm simply explaining my opinion, wich this thread is for.

Also, I called religious people stupid as in short-sighted.
And, my road to hell, Don't make me laugh?
As I stated a few posts before this one, Hell is just another lie, made up to insert fear in the religious people, keeping them religious.

You should start actually reading, before posting complete nonsense.

[Brendan]

...and I'm simply explaining my opinion, wich this thread is for.

Then quit posting statements as if they're factual.

[Emperor]

Then quit posting statements as if they're factual.

Most of them are. The pagan part is a fact.

[Mish]

Athiest, its bullshit sorry to anyone who gets offended to that I didn't mean to offend you.

[Waynex]

There is no god.
Thus, it does not mather.

And, cruelty can be defined in several ways.

Example:
One slaughtered your family. You take revenge by torturing him, and eventually killing him.

Or,
You are the one slaughtering a family.

There is no God, for you.

[Emperor]

There is no God, for you.

Exactly.

[Waynex]

Exactly.

Exactly, so for you to say there's no God period, you're wrong.

[Emperor]

Exactly, so for you to say there's no God period, you're wrong.

The god you are talking about is the imaginary individual, people tend to think is true.

If you'd consider imaginary to be real, then yes, god is real.

- This still is debate, no flame; so don't take it as flame.

[Waynex]

The god you are talking about is the imaginary individual, people tend to think is true.

If you'd consider imaginary to be real, then yes, god is real.

- This still is debate, no flame; so don't take it as flame.

He's imaginary to you, that's the thing.

[Emperor]

He's imaginary to you, that's the thing.

This is an endless discussion weither or not god is real.
Though, I was more talking about the religion itself.

[Waynex]

This is an endless discussion weither or not god is real.
Though, I was more talking about the religion itself.

Well can you be more specific, there's more than one religion.

[Emperor]

Well can you be more specific, there's more than one religion.

On this debate, I was only talking about christianity this far.
Debating every single religion excisting would take to much of effort; for having no results at all.

[the dopest]

so much for an intelligent debate

[Emperor]

so much for an intelligent debate

How so?
Are we not debating?
And debates are based on oppinions, and an oppinion is never dumb.
So, mind explaining what went wrong?

[Shishir G]

On this debate, I was only talking about christianity this far.
Debating every single religion excisting would take to much of effort; for having no results at all.

You can say there is no god endlessly, yet I don't accept that.
You can't prove god doesn't exist, I can't prove god does.
It's beliefs, don't call the people who DO believe in god idiots who believe in imaginary things. You believe in your imagination meaning your imagination doesn't believe in god, and thus i don't care.

[Emperor]

You can say there is no god endlessly, yet I don't accept that.
You can't prove god doesn't exist, I can't prove god does.
It's beliefs, don't call the people who DO believe in god idiots who believe in imaginary things. You believe in your imagination meaning your imagination doesn't believe in god, and thus i don't care.

I never expected you to suddenly stop believing in something you've believed for your entire life.

[Malik]

Then quit posting statements as if they're factual.

Thats basically what he is doing, he acts like everything he says is true.

[Emperor]

Thats basically what he is doing, he acts like everything he says is true.

Once again; I never said I knew everything about religion;
What I posted is nothing more then my view about this Debate, Wich is what I've posted, along with some facts.

Now seriously, this is a debate, I never wanted to flame you. Feel threatened? To bad, I don't really care.
So start debating, rather than flaming.
If you can't, leave this thread.

[Canownueasy`]

God is real because the chance of our Earth being created in the exact way it is is 10^42 (near half a google) to 1.

[Emperor]

God is real because the chance of our Earth being created in the exact way it is is 10^42 (near half a google) to 1.

Mhm, In what exact way?

[Canownueasy`]

Mhm, In what exact way?

Perfect distance from Sun, perfect everything >.>

[Emperor]

Perfect distance from Sun, perfect everything >.>

Who knows, perhaps there was another reason how earth got created.
Doesn't have to be due to a god, when the other reason is incorrect.

[Canownueasy`]

Who knows, perhaps there was another reason how earth got created.
Doesn't have to be due to a god, when the other reason is incorrect.

Well are you a supporter of evolution?
How would you explain this period of time of 6 days for the Earth to be created then the 7th god rests to be periods of billions of years? The first day strictly creates light, "Let there be light." and light was made. This light is not light as in light compared to darkness, it is simply lightness which is darkness and lightness together. Even when a room is completely dark, it is dimmed in light.

[Nat]

Mhm... i guess that i'm the only muslim here at runelocus.

[Emperor]

Well are you a supporter of evolution?
How would you explain this period of time of 6 days for the Earth to be created then the 7th god rests to be periods of billions of years? The first day strictly creates light, "Let there be light." and light was made. This light is not light as in light compared to darkness, it is simply lightness which is darkness and lightness together. Even when a room is completely dark, it is dimmed in light.

There is no proof earth has been created in 7 days.
This is just a part of the bible story, wich is still just the religious view.

I have no idea how earth was created, but I do know it's not by an almighty individual.

[Brendan]

I have no idea how earth was created, but I do know it's not by an almighty individual.

Your reality is not the same as actual reality. If you do not explain the reasoning behind your belief that God did not create the universe, this is not a debate, it is simply a thread of stubborn people throwing solid statements at each other.

[Robin On Fire]

Asalam o Alaikum ( may peace be upon you ).

My name is Usman , i am from Pakistan and i am Muslim. First of all , when i say i am from Pakistan , i am quite sure that the thoughts of 9/11 , London bombing and the recent time square incident arrives. Well , to me and many other open minded people and Muslims , its seems like a conspiracy in order to destroy propably the worlds most peaceful and youngest religon ( 1400years old.Last Major Religon). This might be off topic. but , i would like to put in a some of the great Quotes/AHadis made by the muslim's beloved Prophet Muhammed (PBUH).

QUOTE 1 _+_+_+_+_+_+
And behold! a bier passed by Muhammad, and he stood up; and it was said to him, "This is the bier of a Jew." He said, "Was it not the holder of a soul, from which we should take example and fear?"

Do not speak ill of the dead.

When the bier of anyone passeth by thee, whether Jew, Christian, or Muslim, rise to thy feet."
_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+__+_+_+_+_+_+__+_+_+__+_+_++{+_+_+ _+_+_+_+

QUOTE 2_)+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Keep yourselves far from envy, because it eats up and takes away good actions, like the fire that eats up and burns wood.
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+

QUOTE3 +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
No one who keeps his mind focussed entirely upon himself, can grow large, strong and beautiful in character.
+_+_+_+_+_

QUOTE4+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
The best of the houses is the house where an orphan gets love and kindness.
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_ +_+_+_+_

Now people. with few of the very nice qoutes , u should think that how is possible that followers of such a good man , can be killers of innocent people in the world !

______________++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++____ _________+++++++++++++++
RATION PROOF OF GOD'S EXISTANCE. THROUGH QURAN AND ISLAM


Only the registered members can see the link. <<<<<<<<
Only the registered members can see the link. <<<<<<<<<<

[Emperor]

Your reality is not the same as actual reality. If you do not explain the reasoning behind your belief that God did not create the universe, this is not a debate, it is simply a thread of stubborn people throwing solid statements at each other.

My reasoning would be the one as the few posts before this; I simply don't believe in a god.

Nonetheless, I was more debating about religion itself, Since the debate weither a god excists or not is still an endless one.

Also, How do you mean; your reality is not the same as the actual reality?

@robin on fire: Can't even understand what the guy is saying.

[Malik]

There is no proof earth has been created in 7 days.
This is just a part of the bible story, wich is still just the religious view.

I have no idea how earth was created, but I do know it's not by an almighty individual.

7 days back then aren't the same day which we know is 24 hours, The days could of lasted millions of years, they didn't have the 24 hour day like today, so techinally the earth wasn't created in 7 days(our time) but it was created in 7 days(god's time).

[Emperor]

7 days back then aren't the same day which we know is 24 hours, The days could of lasted millions of years, they didn't have the 24 hour day like today, so techinally the earth wasn't created in 7 days(our time) but it was created in 7 days(god's time).

Correct. Though technically, there was no time yet when the earth was in creation.

[Brendan]

Correct. Though technically, there was no time yet when the earth was in creation.

There has been time since the beginning of everything.

[Emperor]

There has been time since the beginning of everything.

Lol, no mather how much I would like to debate about the concept of time right now, this topic still goes about religion :D

[Christopher]

Exactly, so for you to say there's no God period, you're wrong.

Science proves there is no God period.

[Waynex]

Science proves there is no God period.

Don't post here unless you're going to debate about it.

[Twisted]

Don't post here unless you're going to debate about it.

Why not?
When I tried debating with you, you did exactly what Chris did just the other way around.
"God is real cause bible says so" etc.

[Waynex]

Why not?
When I tried debating with you, you did exactly what Chris did just the other way around.
"God is real cause bible says so" etc.

I never debated with you? I don't even remember you ever posting on here?

[Smudge]

Atheist here; Never really believed in God or Jesus or any other religious related symbols or beliefs. I see Religion as a reason for war most of the time. Sure I get a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door telling me about how God is wonderful. I believe in the scientific view; and for those who say to me; I will be sent to hell. Let it be - What I hate is people trying to force others into their religion as you see a lot.

Hope I don't offend anyone with my Atheist views.
- Smudge

[Shishir G]

Atheist here; Never really believed in God or Jesus or any other religious related symbols or beliefs. I see Religion as a reason for war most of the time. Sure I get a lot of Jehovah's Witnesses knocking on my door telling me about how God is wonderful. I believe in the scientific view; and for those who say to me; I will be sent to hell. Let it be - What I hate is people trying to force others into their religion as you see a lot.

Hope I don't offend anyone with my Atheist views.
- Smudge

Nah, no one should take anything offensive here, it's personal opinions, also i know what you mean.
Those guys who come knocking on your door every Tuesday when i keep telling them "I'M HINDU, AND I DON'T WANNA F**KING CHANGE MY RELIGION YOU D****E BAGS." yet they come every Tuesday knowing that. Hate them, and i used to think Religion was something you were in from birth, not something being advertised to join like a cult every Tuesday.
Religion gets outof hand these days, specially with Christianity. Again, i say this from personal experiences only. No need to take anything offensive here.

[Carter]

i believe in god to a point Like I believe but im not christian:)

[Canownueasy`]

7 days back then aren't the same day which we know is 24 hours, The days could of lasted millions of years, they didn't have the 24 hour day like today, so techinally the earth wasn't created in 7 days(our time) but it was created in 7 days(god's time).

No because on the day before physical light, there were animals and plants. Sure, they could last 24-48 hours without physical light, but how about your "god time" of billions and billions of years?

[Emperor]

Nah, no one should take anything offensive here, it's personal opinions, also i know what you mean.
Those guys who come knocking on your door every Tuesday when i keep telling them "I'M HINDU, AND I DON'T WANNA F**KING CHANGE MY RELIGION YOU D****E BAGS." yet they come every Tuesday knowing that. Hate them, and i used to think Religion was something you were in from birth, not something being advertised to join like a cult every Tuesday.
Religion gets outof hand these days, specially with Christianity. Again, i say this from personal experiences only. No need to take anything offensive here.

This is what I mean about christianity.
(In the way-to-large posts no one bothers to read, lol)
The bigger they become, the more power they get.

[The Only Cj]

I'm faith, not christian (but its similar) Faith is the confident belief or trust in the truth or trustworthiness of a person.. The word Christian was man made (it wasn't made by God). He never made religion. He just wanted people to believe in him. And we're all cast on to this WORLD cause its a test. I don't know why he wanted to test us, i guess i need to read my Bible more. But I'm just saying what I know.

[Brendan]

No because on the day before physical light, there were animals and plants. Sure, they could last 24-48 hours without physical light, but how about your "god time" of billions and billions of years?

Animals, vegetation and humans were created lastly.

[Journal]

I'm not in any religion. If anything, I'm Christian or Agnostic. I'm always changing between those two whenever I think about it, which is rare.

Because to be honest, how can we even know? Science doesn't PROVE anything, science is never 100% accurate. Google it up. For all you big time religion fanatics, how do you know for a fact there is a God? Because of a book labeled "The Bible"? Sure, it makes us want to believe and gives us hope, but there is no physical 100% evidence that God does or does not exist.

[Slik]

@ Brendan,

No religion is fully peaceful, even those who's name literally translates to "Peaceful" - Islam. <- one of the most violient religions, yet their name means "peace". The closest there is, would be buddhism.

Christanity is BY FAR one of the MOST violent religions there are, most likely only second to Islam. People don't just convert to another religion, some willing do however the masses that don't are forced to. In India, when britain ruled the lands, they converted millions of hindus by force. That is why there are lots of Indian christians, they have also spread to many many countries.

Sure you have bible bashers who convert the odd few, but being the largest religion in the world, it didn't come through perseverance and peace, but instead through blood, death and other forms of violence. You can say, it was done for the greater good of the people, but in the end you can't say they are peaceful overall. You could say, aspects are peaceful, sure but not overall.

More so, I think Christians miss one major thing. Jesus was jewish, if you believe in him, why don't you practice Judaism but editted slightly and not the highly editted religion that is Christanity. For example, Jesus who is your saviour used to eat Kosher food, which he believed to be part of Judiasm and not do so would be sinful. How many Christians eat kosher food?

Do be honest, the main aspect of Christanity I don't like is the bible bashers. When people say "as a christian it is my sacred duty" malarky. Hinduism and Buddhism, a branch from Hindiusm are the two main peaceful religions. Sure you have millions of small religions who haven't faced anything but peace because they are new. I could make a religion right now, meditate and say as proof there is peaceful religion, but that doesn't benifit the 6 main religions though does it? When I say no religion is peaceful, i'm talking about the main 6.

Don't feel offended Brendan, i'm simply debating.

[Waynex]

The hell? How is Christianity one of the MOST violent religion.

[Slik]

The hell? How is Christianity one of the MOST violent religion.

Violently converting people doesn't scream peace now does it?

[Emperor]

The hell? How is Christianity one of the MOST violent religion.

Not to mention the genocide for non-believers.

[Benjiboyyy]

Violently converting people doesn't scream peace now does it?

Not this shit again...

[Emperor]

Not this shit again...

This is not debating.

Here's a huge text (Not written by me), all of you 100% christians should've read, before thinking about the bible as a book of peace and love.
(No flame, offensive, spam, ... Or whatsoever meant by this.)

If people in Norway hear my name they normally think of Satanism and church fires. The press very successfully managed to do what the Judeo-Christians have routinely been doing since the early Middle Ages, and convinced people that the persecuted dissident in question (in this case me) was a mad and dangerous devil worshipper.

I could argue that I never was a devil worshipper, but I think it is better to simply prove that devil worship is a product of the imagination of the Judeo-Christians. When you know that there has never been devil worship in any form in Europe, then you must also understand that there has never been any devil worshippers. When you know that, it should become clear that I cannot possibly have been a devil worshipper either.


***

An English writer, Margareth Murray, published a book in 1921 called "The Witch-Cult In Western Europe". She claimed the devil worship was indeed not devil worship at all, but a Pagan cult, and although criticized her book has been used by pretend-witches (especially in the United Kingdom) in a feminist attempt to revive the cult of the witches. Although her book is pretty useless as a source, she has a point. The devil worshippers were indeed Pagans practicing the ancient religion. The whole "devil worship" idea as we know it is made up by the Judeo-Christians of the Middle Ages, most notably by people like the authors of "Malleus Maleficarum" ("The Witch Hammer"), Jakob Sprengler and Heinrich Kramer, both of them being Catholic priests and one of them being a Messianic Jew.

Just like we don't really know what Pagan means, nobody really knows why they called these particular people "witches" - or (German) Hexen or (Norwegian) hekser. What we do know is that this too is a Judeo-Christian term and that it was never used by the Pagans. The Sabbath is a Jewish holiday and has nothing to do with our European culture whatsoever.

That is the whole problem with this subject; everything people know about this cult is what the rotten Judeo-Christians have told us about it. They have demonized this cult to such a degree that we think of the so-called "Black Sabbath" as some crazy and disgusting scene, with the "evil witches" going to Blokkbeg or some other mountain to worship Satan. According to the Judeo-Christians they did this on Friday 13th to mock Jesus Christ, because there were 13 people present during the Last Supper; Satan himself was a demon with horns growing from his forehead and he walked with a limp, because his one foot was a goat's or horse's foot; "witches" were accused of sacrificing infants to the devil and having sex with him. So, because of this the Judeo-Christians hanged and burned the "witches", or executed them in some other manner, and until the XVIIIth century murdered hundreds of thousands of "witches" and other people they didn't like in Europe.

Instead of expressing what I think about all of this, I will tell You what this cult, and in particular the Friday 13th mystery, really was all about. It might surprise many, but we actually know perfectly well what these rituals were all about, why they practiced them and even who practiced them. Naturally I cannot describe all the mysteries of the ancient religion in an article like this one, but I can give You a brief and hopefully comprehensible explanation to the most demonized of all the mysteries, the so-called "Black Sabbath", that originally is a festival of fertility, celebrated the Friday 13th every month of the ancient calendar (consisting of a New Year's Day and 13 months, each made up of 4 weeks exactly).

The four phases of life are those of reincarnation, birth, life and death; night, morning, day and evening; winter, spring, summer and autumn, et cetera. The weeks in each month is divided into four phases too: the first week is the week of reincarnation, the second the week of birth, the third the week of life and the fourth the week of death. Each weekday has special meaning as well; the Sunday is the day of the Solar deities, the Monday the day of the Lunar deities, the Tuesday the day of the sky deities, the Wednesday the day of the deities of magic, the Thursday the day of the agricultural deities, the Friday the day of the deities of love and fertility and the Saturday the day of the deities of reflection (id est it was a day when they summed up the events of the week, before the next week began). The first Friday in each month of the ancient calendar is always Friday 6th, the second is always Friday 13th, the third always Friday 20th and the fourth always Friday 27th. So the second Friday of each month, Friday 13th, is a special day of love, fertility and birth. In other words it is the year's most important day of human fertility. That is what the "witches" celebrated on this day, and it naturally has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus or the number of people present at the last supper. Judeo-Christianity and its symbols have nothing to do with this ancient celebration what-so-ever!

The holiday known as (German) Walpurgisnacht, (Norwegian) Valborgsnatt, (Gaelic) Beltane, et cetera, is the Friday 13th of the 7th month of the year, when (the 6 months of) Winter meets and marries (the 6 months of) Summer in the middle (7th) month of the ancient 13-month calendar. According to the Judeo-Christians this is the night the "witches" go to the mountains to have sex with "Satan". This night is therefore called "the night of the witches", but it was originally the traditional day for weddings in the Pagan era. It was the day when people married on Earth, just like the gods (like Njörðr) and the goddesses (like Skaði) married in Heaven, and we therefore call this night the Honeymoon - the night when the gods united with the goddesses in heaven. (NB! Honey is a symbol of the æsir and ásynjur [the Scandinavian names of the gods and goddesses respectively].) Now, most people know that it is perfectly normal for married people to have sex on the night they marry, so there is nothing special about that.

The Catholic nuns are said to marry their deity, and this practice has its origin in the Pagan cult, where the Pagan priestesses married their deity. The big difference was that the Pagan deity was represented on Earth by a Pagan priest. The Pagan priestesses could in other words still produce children and be really useful to the kin and community, unlike the Catholic nuns, who reject life, by not having children. To be a Pagan priest you had to be chosen by the priestesses (in Scandinavia often called valkyries ["selectors of the chosen"]) to be their Freyr priest, and therefore they organized different types of competitions to find the man best suited for this task. The best known of these events is of course the Olympic games in Greece, that was originally a "meat market" for virgins (unmarried women), who demanded that the men competed against each other sky-clad (naked), so that they could see all their physical qualities before they decided whom to marry. It served no purpose for the women to participate in these games, as the purpose of the games was for the women to find the best man, or at least the man they liked the most. The games were organized every 4th year, two times for every perfect pentagram (the symbol of love) drawn on the sky by (the planet we know as) Venus (in ancient Scandinavia known as Freyja). Similar races were organized all over Europe, and the purpose was always the same; to separate the strong from the weak.

The winners of the different races were seen as the best men, and they were often given the role of the Freyr priest by different groups of women ("covens"). Because of this we, in Norway, still call weddings bryllup, that derives from Norse bruðhlaup and translates as "bride's race" - and I may add that "bride" is in Norway also the title of the groom (id est "bride-groom" ["bride" means "the promised one", "groom" means "man"]). He also had to be a Freyr priest, though, and had to go through different initiation rituals that I will not discuss here, to prove his spiritual strength as well (because physical strength alone was not enough to be chosen by the priestesses). He also had to participate in the spiritual battle that we know as Ragnarök, that took place every year on the 7th day of the 13 days of Yule - when the forces of Hel meet the forces of Ásgarðr (Heaven) on the battlefield (and because of that we still celebrate this day, today with fireworks, as a symbolic war, on what is the New Year's Eve of the Julian calendar).

In this battle the initiates have to, like the god Víðarr, kill the Fenrir wolf, and as we know this was done by placing one foot in the lower jaw of the wolf and then take its upper jaw and tear it apart. Víðarr had a special shoe for this purpose, to protect his foot from the teeth and fire of Fenrir's mouth. Now, when the priests did this - every year - they naturally hurt their feet, and the result of this was that they often started to walk with a limp, or they walked with a limp because they wore one special shoe. In other words, the Freyr priest who had sex with the Freyja priestesses on Friday 13th had no goat's or horse's foot or anything like that, but he simply was a Freyr priest with a limp or with a special shoe on one of his feet, causing him to walk with a limp!

The Freyja priestesses didn't really marry a man, but like I said they married a man who represented the god Freyr. We really know perfectly well that the Greek Pagans performed and impersonated their gods by putting on a mask, in the different plays and mysteries, but they did this in the rest of Europe too. When they put on a mask representing a deity they changed and became that deity. We know Freyr from Gaelic sources as Cernunnos, called "the horned god", and rock carvings from Scandinavia portray this deity as a man with a stag's horns. Contrary to popular belief, the Scandinavian warriors (like the Vikings) never wore helmets with horns, but the Freyr priests did, or they wore masks with horns, and therefore the "Satan" having sex with the Freyja priestesses on Friday 13th is described by the Judeo-Christians as a "horned demon".

The Freyja priestesses too represented a deity, and therefore they had special titles. A priestess named (for example) Helga would be called (in German) Frau Helga or (in Norwegian) Fru Helga, because Frau/Fru (id est "Mrs.", "madame") is an abbreviation of the name of Freyja (Germanic Fraujō). When married to (a) Freyr (priest) she was no longer just Helga, but Freyja-Helga, and she represented the goddess Freyja on Earth. Today Frau/Fru simply means "wife" or "married woman", but I dare say the widespread use of these titles bears witness to the size of this Pagan cult in the past.

The fact that the "witches" kissed the manhood of the Freyr priest, in the particular mystery I am discussing, is explained by their need to show humility in front of their god - just like Catholics today kiss the ring of the pope when they approach him (for the same reason). The Judeo-Christian accusation of child sacrifices is explained by the fact that the Freyja priestesses only wanted quality children, and therefore they removed the children with severe deficiencies, by placing them in the forest to be eaten by wolves, or something like that. They basically did what most pregnant women do today when they - if they find out there is something wrong with their unborn child - (usually) take an abortion. To a Pagan, and to all other healthy and sane human beings, the quality is all that matters.

So the covens of "witches" having sex with "Satan" were cults of love and fertility. It was an elitist cult, because only the best men were accepted as priests, and therefore the best blood of the different tribes was cultivated, unlike today. These cults were rarely large, and there were naturally many such Freyr priests all over Scandinavia and in the rest of Europe too. They were probably known as Cernunnos (-priests) in the Gaelic-speaking areas, as Veles (-priests) in the Slavonic areas, as Potrimpos (-priests) in the Baltic areas, as Dionysus (-priests) in the Greek areas, as Bacchus (-priests) in the Roman areas, et cetera.

Although these Pagan cults seemingly ceased to exist in Southern Europe as early in Antiquity, they survived in Northern Europe well into the XVIIIth century and even into the XIXth century, and because of that people like me1 can know so much about this. We are not fooled by the lies of the Judeo-Christians, because we know the truth!

So what the Judeo-Christians call "Satanism" or "devil worship" is really our own European religion! My attraction to this must be seen in the light of this. Also my teenage will to briefly use the term "Satanist" to describe myself must be seen in this light. Yet, I have never been a "Satanist", just like our forefathers never were "Satanists" either. I am and have always been a Pagan. "Satanism" or "devil worship" as described by the Judeo-Christians has simply never existed. The belief in the existence of "Satanism" or "devil worship" is just ignorance and a result of lie-propaganda. The "witches" were murdered by the church not because they worshipped "Satan" or any other fictional Hebrew deity, but because they kept practicing our European religion, against the will of the Judeo-Christians. The only reason they stopped murdering these noble women and men is the fact that they ran out of people to burn, or they failed to find any more of them. This also explains why so many "witches" were murdered in Northern Europe and in Germany in particular, compared to the numbers murdered in Southern Europe. Southern Europe was generally speaking Christianized as much as five hundred or even a thousand years before Northern Europe and Germany, and naturally there were far more Pagans in the parts of Europe that were Christianized last. More women than men were murdered simply because there were more priestesses than priests. Each coven only had one man, but most often several women - from a few to as much as sixteen.

I don't know much about the persecution of Pagans in Europe, but I know that just like in Northern Europe Paganism remained strong in Eastern Europe for a long time, and the last bands of bards (often consisting of "crippled" people [like men with a limp...]) didn't stop spreading their lore in Russia until the Bolshevik revolution in 1917. They traveled around, often like beggars, telling people stories, giving prophecies or singing songs in return for food and lodging. Many of the traditional Russian holiday songs still used in Russia are actually such songs (!).

In Norway one bard's song was recorded in the XVIIth or XVIIIth century. An old woman traveling around in Telemark came to a farm and offered to sing a song to them in return for food and lodging, as was custom. She sang 52 verses of a song that is known as Draumkvædet ("the dream song"). The song describes in detail how an initiate, Olav Åsteson (Olav, "the son of love"), travels in the spirit world in the 13 days of Yule, and meets the deities in Heaven. The song is somewhat Christianized, something the bards had to do in the Judeo-Christian era in order not to be persecuted or even murdered by the church, but it is still very interesting and descriptive. The old woman was one of the last known bards in Norway.

Paganism is not dead and we don't even need to reconstruct it. It never really died. It survived underground, in Norway and in other corners of Europe too. Like the Sun rises in the East, every morning, Paganism will rise again. The European light will inevitably banish the Asian darkness we know as Judeo-Christianity, and the pure amongst us will find the runes (id est secrets) of Óðinn. - but only if they choose to walk on the overgrown paths of our forefathers.

Text written by Varg Vikerness, Norway, June 2005.

[Shishir G]

The hell? How is Christianity one of the MOST violent religion.

Christianity = the religion with the most followers = there has to be violence.
It's like saying who would create more destruction? 3 men, or 800 men? Please no one give a smartass answer to that, its a example.

[Slik]

This is not debating.

Here's a huge text (Not written by me), all of you 100% christians should've read, before thinking about the bible as a book of peace and love.
(No flame, offensive, spam, ... Or whatsoever meant by this.)

(text replaced with this due to shere size)

Text written by Varg Vikerness, Norway, June 2005.

Very educational, thank you.

[Emperor]

Very educational, thank you.

No problem.