Pledge of Allegiance

[Giraffe]

Every morning before we start school, we have to say the Pledge of Allegiance. EVERY DAY! It's a pledge, shouldn't we only have to say it once in our life? And what about people who are atheist? A line in the pledge says "One nation, under God". Are they allowed not to say the pledge?

Discuss.

[Skill Plasma]

You don't have to say the Pledge.

[Giraffe]

At my school, at least in my first class, we have to.

[Drosel]

At my school, at least in my first class, we have to.

And if you wont say what will happen?

[Megak]

if they require you to do so, you can sue the school system. I'd give it a shot

[Shishir G]

No, thats not possible, a School cannot just make people do it.
Of course you have to be quiet, respect others beliefs, and not walk around the room just stand still, is what most of my friends that are atheist do.
Have you ever tried to say no to it?

[Megak]

No, thats not possible, a School cannot just make people do it.
Of course you have to be quiet, respect others beliefs, and not walk around the room just stand still, is what most of my friends that are atheist do.
Have you ever tried to say no to it?

lol, i had a mexican friend who sat down during the pledge EVERYDAY, even when he was walking around. That class was the best class I have ever had

[Zykev2]

This same topic has been posted like 3 times in the past week. The pledge of allegiance is a respect thing to the people who have fought and died for our country and freedom, nobody MAKES you say the Pledge the most they can make you do is at least stand which if you're American and don't even want to stand for the pledge you don't deserve to be here and need to learn the history about this country. I don't care if you hate are government right now or not you're not showing respect to the Government you're doing it for the people as a nation and the soldiers.

[Giraffe]

I just stand. I believe in God but I respect other people and don't say "under God".

[Megak]

I just stand. I believe in God but I respect other people and don't say "under God".

then you aren't respecting god? lol, what kind of religious person are you?

[Shishir G]

then you aren't respecting god? lol, what kind of religious person are you?

idk maybe hes a atheist?

[bigcasey123]

i don't believe in god, but i still do the pledge cause i show respect to the country that keeps me safe every day, i get mad when people don't stand, one day i got in trouble for called a Mexican a spick cause he would make in front of the pledge.

[J i m b o]

I think it depends on your grade lol, because in highschool we never had to say that shit.

[Giraffe]

I can believe and not see. I didn't say I was very religious. I still believe in God though. And Jimbo I'm in highschool and get told to do it haha

[Shishir G]

I think it depends on your grade lol, because in highschool we never had to say that shit.

noooooo.. where do you live??
It should be in every school in the USA, highschool, middle, elementary.

[Shishir G]

I can believe and not see. I didn't say I was very religious. I still believe in God though.

Saying those few words isn't going against your beliefs, their words, not tattoos. Saying them isn't going to hurt you, no one's forcing you to say it, but you choose not to because you think those few words are "very religious"
That, sir, is dumb.

[Megak]

I think it depends on your grade lol, because in highschool we never had to say that shit.

high school teachers dun care

LIKE MINE!

[J i m b o]

noooooo.. where do you live??
It should be in every school in the USA, highschool, middle, elementary.

I live in Nevada USA, the school participates but it doesn't really matter if you say it or not. Only in elementary and middle school did we have to say it everyday.

[Giraffe]

Saying those few words isn't going against your beliefs, their words, not tattoos. Saying them isn't going to hurt you, no one's forcing you to say it, but you choose not to because you think those few words are "very religious"
That, sir, is dumb.

Pretty sure I didn't say that those words were very religious. I just choose not to say them.

[J i m b o]

Giraffe I don't understand the problem with saying it honestly, it's really not a big deal at all. If you have a problem with it leave America?

[Ramsin]

In high school we don't anymore.

[Shishir G]

Pretty sure I didn't say that those words were very religious. I just choose not to say them.


I can believe and not see. I didn't say I was very religious. I still believe in God though.
" I didn't say I was very religious." That only leads me to think that your meaning to say those words are very religious.

Anyways, you believe in god, just fucking say it, even if your Atheist, what difference is it going to make to you, your not gonna lose one of your testicles because you stood up and respected your country.



In high school we don't anymore.

Do you mean like you can choose to do it or no or just... not do it at all and no one does it..
in our highschool its a choice, it comes on the announcements to do the pledge during 1st or 3rd period and everyone stand up but some just choose not to say it.

[Ramsin]

then you aren't respecting god? lol, what kind of religious person are you?

I think he meant he respects the people that don't say under God, but he says it.

Edit: NVM just read his other two posts.

[Megak]

Giraffe I don't understand the problem with saying it honestly, it's really not a big deal at all. If you have a problem with it leave America?

well said


I think he meant he respects the people that don't say under God, but he says it.

i think he said that he doesn't say it to respect the people that don't believe our nation is under God

[Jon]

i don't believe in god, but i still do the pledge cause i show respect to the country that keeps me safe every day, i get mad when people don't stand, one day i got in trouble for called a Mexican a spick cause he would make in front of the pledge.

It's not really your country who protect you, if your country was ever under massive threat they would sooner send you out to war and then you'd be the one protecting yourself in the battlefield.

They just protect the countries name.

[Giraffe]

Giraffe I don't understand the problem with saying it honestly, it's really not a big deal at all. If you have a problem with it leave America?

I know it's not a big deal. I'm just going to leave this post now. You guys win.

[Ramsin]

@Giraffe if you don't say "Under God" for the people respect who don't believe in God then why don't they have respect for you to say "Under God".

[bigcasey123]

It's not really your country who protect you, if your country was ever under massive threat they would sooner send you out to war and then you'd be the one protecting yourself in the battlefield.

They just protect the countries name.
i know it's called draft and i would love to fight for my freedom, and no it don't protect the countries name it protects the people.

[Zykev2]

It's not really your country who protect you, if your country was ever under massive threat they would sooner send you out to war and then you'd be the one protecting yourself in the battlefield.

They just protect the countries name.

In the words of John F. Kennedy "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

[Shishir G]

one of my fav. quotes up there :) ^

[bigcasey123]

In the words of John F. Kennedy "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

i love that saying.

[Sethy]

I've gotten a referral for insubordination once. My teacher told me to stand up and say the pledge; I refused. She kept going on and on, and I kept refusing. Finally she just sent me to the Deans, henceforth I basically preached to them about constitutional rights and how it applied, blah blah, eventually reversing the referral.

I simply don't say the pledge because I don't believe in God, and as of now, I really have no respect for America. However, I'm not completely rude about it. I just sit quiet in my seat.

[Shishir G]

I've gotten a referral for insubordination once. My teacher told me to stand up and say the pledge; I refused. She kept going on and on, and I kept refusing. Finally she just sent me to the Deans, henceforth I basically preached to them about constitutional rights and how it applied, blah blah, eventually reversing the referral.

I simply don't say the pledge because I don't believe in God, and as of now, I really have no respect for America. However, I'm not completely rude about it. I just sit quiet in my seat.

Well, i agree thats a bit too far, the least you should do is stand up even if your not going to say it... but i agree that's a gay teacher.
You did what you had to and i'd do the same for my beliefs.

[Justin H]

I've gotten a referral for insubordination once. My teacher told me to stand up and say the pledge; I refused. She kept going on and on, and I kept refusing. Finally she just sent me to the Deans, henceforth I basically preached to them about constitutional rights and how it applied, blah blah, eventually reversing the referral.

I simply don't say the pledge because I don't believe in God, and as of now, I really have no respect for America. However, I'm not completely rude about it. I just sit quiet in my seat.

Why do you not respect America?

[Sethy]

Why do you not respect America?

Why should I? We're getting more corrupt, power-hungry, lazy, and just plain stupid by the day.

Let's not go off-topic debating here, though. If it derails to much we can start another debate about this.

[Shishir G]

Why should I?
Let's not go off-topic debating here, though. If it derails to much we can start another debate about this.

and we shall!

[Shishir G]

Why should I?
Let's not go off-topic debating here, though. If it derails to much we can start another debate about this.

and we shall!

[Zykev2]

I've gotten a referral for insubordination once. My teacher told me to stand up and say the pledge; I refused. She kept going on and on, and I kept refusing. Finally she just sent me to the Deans, henceforth I basically preached to them about constitutional rights and how it applied, blah blah, eventually reversing the referral.

I simply don't say the pledge because I don't believe in God, and as of now, I really have no respect for America. However, I'm not completely rude about it. I just sit quiet in my seat.

I disagree I think you should at least stand, It is more of immaturity honestly to just sit down and not say the pledge because you simply "Do not believe in god." You show no respect for the United States, you obviously are corrupted from what the news tries to show. You're living in a country that you can speak freely, do as you please within reason, come on this website with no censorship and rant about how much you dislike the United States and not get prosecuted or even executed for it and you have no respect? There is a difference between having no respect for our Government and having no respect for the Men and women who helped establish the U.S, our founding fathers, Men and women who died fighting for our freedoms that we have. Its a respect thing not for our government but for our country. You don't say in the Pledge "I pledge allegiance to the United States Government." I have a strong dislike for people who don't even show enough respect as to stand. Don't preach about "Corrupt, power hungry" because of our Government you're confusing the two completely which is where your lack of knowledge and gullibility shows as you let the news manipulate your mind and follow the whole anti-american "hippy" movement like there was in the 1960's. The fact of the matter is you are blind to how fortunate you really are, and most Americans are and its really sad to be honest on how short our memory is, our memories only go as far back as President Bush and the mess he helped create.

[Ramsin]

Why should I? We're getting more corrupt, power-hungry, lazy, and just plain stupid by the day.

Let's not go off-topic debating here, though. If it derails to much we can start another debate about this.

If you compare America to other countries it's shows that America isn't as corrupt.

[Sethy]

I disagree I think you should at least stand, It is more of immaturity honestly to just sit down and not say the pledge because you simply "Do not believe in god." You show no respect for the United States, you obviously are corrupted from what the news tries to show. You're living in a country that you can speak freely, do as you please within reason, come on this website with no censorship and rant about how much you dislike the United States and not get prosecuted or even executed for it and you have no respect? There is a difference between having no respect for our Government and having no respect for the Men and women who helped establish the U.S, our founding fathers, Men and women who died fighting for our freedoms that we have. Its a respect thing not for our government but for our country. You don't say in the Pledge "I pledge allegiance to the United States Government." I have a strong dislike for people who don't even show enough respect as to stand. Don't preach about "Corrupt, power hungry" because of our Government you're confusing the two completely which is where your lack of knowledge and gullibility shows as you let the news manipulate your mind and follow the whole anti-american hippy movement.



Why should I stand? Honesty is the best policy.
I do respect the people fighting, and I do respect the founders. However I'm completely disgusted by the things we fight for, and what this country is. I could give a shit less about the news, I ignore the majority of that. I do my research, I know we start wars over oil. I know we bomb millions of innocent civilians to stop a war. I KNOW that we started this country on a slave foundation. Want me to continue? I don't see what respect should be given there. I'm not going to salute that, sorry.

[Ramsin]

Why should I stand? Honesty is the best policy.
I do respect the people fighting, and I do respect the founders. However I'm completely disgusted by the things we fight for, and what this country is. I could give a shit less about the news, I ignore the majority of that. I do my research, I know we start wars over oil. I know we bomb millions of innocent civilians to stop a war. I KNOW that we started this country on a slave foundation. Want me to continue? I don't see what respect should be given there. I'm not going to salute that, sorry.

Ever thought of moving around the world?

[Sethy]

Ever thought of moving around the world?

Care to elaborate?

[Megak]

Why should I stand? Honesty is the best policy.
I do respect the people fighting, and I do respect the founders. However I'm completely disgusted by the things we fight for, and what this country is. I could give a shit less about the news, I ignore the majority of that. I do my research, I know we start wars over oil. I know we bomb millions of innocent civilians to stop a war. I KNOW that we started this country on a slave foundation. Want me to continue? I don't see what respect should be given there. I'm not going to salute that, sorry.

So you disagree with what the politicians are doing. At least you live in a country where you can change what politicians there are to ones who don't believe in corruption. Most places never change because they don't have the ability to vote out their leaders and speak out on behalf of the citizens. If you don't like what we're doing STAND UP AND CHANGE IT. Disrespecting the country doesn't solve any problems, doesn't make you look important, and in fact, is just the kind of people that get us into this mess. Without people to change this, nothing will happen. Be a responsible citizen and defend the freedoms on which we are based on

[Sethy]

So you disagree with what the politicians are doing. At least you live in a country where you can change what politicians there are to ones who don't believe in corruption. Most places never change because they don't have the ability to vote out their leaders and speak out on behalf of the citizens. If you don't like what we're doing STAND UP AND CHANGE IT. Disrespecting the country doesn't solve any problems, doesn't make you look important, and in fact, is just the kind of people that get us into this mess. Without people to change this, nothing will happen. Be a responsible citizen and defend the freedoms on which we are based on


I realize the freedom our country grants. I'm glad that it does that. That has nothing to do with my respect for the moral foundation of the US. Why would I even attempt to change the government? I would obviously fail, and if I even got to the point where the heard me; they'd ignore, or just wave me off.

[Sethy]

Oh, and...

"Would you suck my dick to respect me? No? Then gtfo." ~ Bl00dshooter

[Megak]

well said



i think he said that he doesn't say it to respect the people that don't believe our nation is under God


Oh, and...

"Would you suck my dick to respect me? No? Then gtfo." ~ Bl00dshooter

you just quoted bl00dshooter, what a waste of a post

[Ramsin]

Care to elaborate?

Seeing how other countries are compared to US.

[bl00dshooter]

you just quoted bl00dshooter, what a waste of a post

This is the intelligent debate section, so why bother annoying me? It's not me who is the "omfg, I use C commands" guy.
So, please, don't.

Also, to be honest with you, I could write better tutorials at age 10, or maybe 9.

---

I'm happy there is no pledge like that in Brazil, we only say the national anthem, which is very good for me.

[Zykev2]

Why should I stand? Honesty is the best policy.
I do respect the people fighting, and I do respect the founders. However I'm completely disgusted by the things we fight for, and what this country is. I could give a shit less about the news, I ignore the majority of that. I do my research, I know we start wars over oil. I know we bomb millions of innocent civilians to stop I war. I KNOW that we started this country on a slave foundation. Want me to continue? I don't see what respect should be given there. I'm not going to salute that, sorry.

People like you don't even deserve to be in this country talking like that to be honest, I agree with some ways that the war in Afghanistan and Iraq is completely and utterly bull crap and beyond that it is border line illegal, we had no right going into Iraq. Your rebuttal further more supports what I said in my introductory argument about the animosity you have towards the U.S in which you live and the ignorance that you present that you don't view simply beyond the predicament we are in right now in the Middle east. You say you have respect for the people fighting but you can't even stand to show that respect, you say you have respect for the founding fathers but you can't stand to show your respect? You don't have to be showing respect for what your Government is doing at the moment but at least show respect for what your country has done in the past and what it is doing for you right now.

I want to take a moment and point out a few things in your argument.


know we bomb millions of innocent civilians

You neglect the fact that the United States are not the only ones in Iraq, according to (Only the registered members can see the link.) it states

Others do as well, albeit periodically. The latest is a British polling firm that puts the Iraqi dead at 1.22 million.
however the same study also went door to door asking people if there loved ones have been killed in viloent battles and
they quoted

Surveyors knocked on 1,849 doors asking if the household had suffered a death by violence. Projecting the responses nationally, the study put the toll at 654,965.

About a third of the deaths were attributed to coalition forces. Responsibility for 45 per cent of the deaths couldn't be determined.
The Iraq Body Count count, updated daily, stood yesterday at "between 72,596 and 79,187."
Also I assume that you believe that American's are the only ones that have "bombed" millions of people, well this also
supports what I stated earlier about your lack of knowledge in World history, as early as World War 2 (1940's) Allied
and Axis powers killed apporximately 30 million+ Civilians (Only the registered members can see the link.) Do you just dismiss
the fact that every country puts civilians in jeapordy whenever there is a war? Or do you only go as far as saying that
the United States just bombs civilians? You have to face that war is not pretty, its not fair, its not cool, its ugly,
innocent people will die in every war and there is nothing you or I can do about it the fact of the matter is the world is just a messed up place its not just the United States. My opponent is dwelling on the facts of the chaos that the Coallition forces are in right now and not the good also the negative aspects of the war. Believe it or not they're positives that have come out of this, we have freed an oppresed country from a ruthles dictator and stopped the major advancements from Al Quaeda. The Coallition forces send aid and money to war torn parts of the country to build things like churches, childrens hospitals, animals, and plants to help them. The United States has set up Iraqs first free election which is a huge feat, in no way am I endorsing the pursuit of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan I am simply stating that there is a silver lining to all the otrosities that this war has had upon both nations. I am also trying to stress that my opponent is only scratching the surface on why our country was founded (for religious freedoms and pursuit of happiness) and how quick we are to forget everything. This country is only 235 years old its still a teenager compared to most countries that are established right now, I'm trying to stress that just because you don't agree with the situation we are in right now and our Government doesn't mean you can't show respect for where its deserved. Believe it or not its the same Government and country that you dislike so much that gave you the right to talk how you do.

I typed this in notepad so sorry if there is some spelling mistakes :p.

[Megak]

This is the intelligent debate section, so why bother annoying me? It's not me who is the "omfg, I use C commands" guy.
So, please, don't.

Also, to be honest with you, I could write better tutorials at age 10, or maybe 9.

---

I'm happy there is no pledge like that in Brazil, we only say the national anthem, which is very good for me.

the equivalent intelligence being used in "intelligent" debate is
"Would you suck my dick to respect me? No? Then gtfo." ~ Bl00dshooter
which barely is relevant, if anything.

And the fact that you keep bringing up one topic says that you have no originality and you're obsessed with it. There's other topics on this forum too, you know. Keep that to PMs I won't read.

[bl00dshooter]

the equivalent intelligence being used in "intelligent" debate is
"Would you suck my dick to respect me? No? Then gtfo." ~ Bl00dshooter
which barely is relevant, if anything.

And the fact that you keep bringing up one topic says that you have no originality and you're obsessed with it. There's other topics on this forum too, you know. Keep that to PMs I won't read.

Please realize I didn't post that in this forum, but on minecraft, Sethy just quoted it; not my fault.

I just keep bringing it up to show how pathetic you are.

[Megak]

Please realize I didn't post that in this forum, but on minecraft, Sethy just quoted it; not my fault.

I just keep bringing it up to show how pathetic you are.

if anything, you're making yourself look pathetic by posting something that stupid and constantly commenting on one topic I made. Actually, you're not LOOKING pathetic you ARE pathetic.

[Giraffe]

Uhhh... Close this topic? It totally changed from what it started out as.

[Zykev2]

Uhhh... Close this topic? It totally changed from what it started out as.

...no need to close it. The delete post button/infraction would be sufficient enough.

[Vesta Main]

In my school, you dont have to say it. its your choice.

[Network]

I'm in highschool. We have to at least stand up, or else we will be kicked out of class.

[Senqi]

Saying those few words isn't going against your beliefs, their words, not tattoos. Saying them isn't going to hurt you, no one's forcing you to say it, but you choose not to because you think those few words are "very religious"
That, sir, is dumb.

If they are just words, why do you have to say them every day. To me it sounds like people in the USA have to deal with pro american propaganda everyday, probably out of fear for another civil war.

[Zykev2]

If they are just words, why do you have to say them every day. To me it sounds like people in the USA have to deal with pro american propaganda everyday, probably out of fear for another civil war.

Haha, did you just say that the Pledge is just Pro-American propaganda? Now a days its cool to be Anti-American, not pro.